Revisit of PVP - What should it be?

[Grigori]

For teaming... I am sure it would be ok to OOC private message back and forth about levels before heading out and then RP whether or not a teaming would be a good idea... There are ways to get around the CR issue for the purposes of grouping; it's just going to take matureplayers to deal with it properly. Once all the idiots are removed from the population, this should not be a problem.

I think removing the CR on Player Examine is good and bad. You can't really tell who is appropriate to group with. I don't think removing this will keep players from killing each other. The reason being, established people know the community. They know who is new and who is not. They have a good idea of who is what level. It also won't take long for someone new to figure out who is more powerful and who isn't. Meta gaming is the real issue.

[Satoshi]

Where's the option: "No, I think even a three-minute death wait timer is quite a bit of time"? Honestly, I'm not afraid of dying, even perminently. That's not really the subject of this topic, though, is it? No, this is more trying to make the death system more geared towards 'you should fear dying, because either you need lots of friends and travel with groups of good guys, or your a bad villain and shouldn't be pking newbies'.

Certainly, I agree that CR should be taken out. I also think that knowledge that a player has any sort of magical enhancements should be out, save for visual effects. That'll make it even harder to metagame, or judge with any out of character certainty what sort of risk you are taking. Then again, people who are causing us to take this action are already going to know most of their previous targets, and figuring out who's new won't be too hard, as Azaroth pointed out already.

Death, right now, is already a pain in the ass. Sure, it's a bit unrealistic to suddenly respawn in a predetermined home point after dying, but it's a lot easier than having players or DMs, for whatever reason, run around rescuing dead people for whatever reason. It sounds like this is supposedly going to be with the aims of detracting PvP deaths, but unless you take a lot of time coding it otherwise, it's going to affect regular play, too. Getting ganked by ghouls in a secret room that you stumble upon for the first time, unless your of considerable character strength, ends in a very grisly death. In PnP, sure: you're either rolling up a new character, someone is saving your ass, or DMvine intervention prevents this from happening to keep the cheap death from ruining everyone's fun. I honestly see this making more problems for DMs (if it would even be a subject for DMs to consider involving themselves in, since if realism is the case, they'd have no reason to unless they sympathize with players who got the shaft... we all do sometimes), and, more importantly, the players. After all, isn't this supposed to be fun for everyone?

Bottom line: sounds realistic, sure. Sounds understandable, of course. Doesn't sound easy, nor does it sound fun.

[skyde]

I am undecided on this matter in regards to the actual 'penalties' for death. Good points on many posts....

[Tratz]

We decided from the start to never do a Fugue plane. This is a roleplay server and there is no valuable roleplay with some generic afterlife plane which always seems to offer an opportunity to come back to life again? That's just a horrible thing for immersion if you ask me.

I suppose. It was just an idea. I can't speak too much on the behalf of Faerunian Dieties or what happens after you die. I just don't know what happens unless you worship AO or no god :P.

[Anks]

Depends on the PvP I beleive.

I say for murder yes someone would actually have to raise that body, because I doubt the temple will raise a murderer. But what happens to the victim. Do they have to wait to be raised? What if they got ambushed in a random area. Are they screwed?

I agree with this but thats just me I think the victim of the crime should be raised while if the culprit dies in the procces of trying to kill someone they get this penalty but I would think its rather impossible to script something like this.

[CrimsonTears]

Death, right now, is already a pain in the ass. Sure, it's a bit unrealistic to suddenly respawn in a predetermined home point after dying, but it's a lot easier than having players or DMs, for whatever reason, run around rescuing dead people for whatever reason. It sounds like this is supposedly going to be with the aims of detracting PvP deaths, but unless you take a lot of time coding it otherwise, it's going to affect regular play, too. Getting ganked by ghouls in a secret room that you stumble upon for the first time, unless your of considerable character strength, ends in a very grisly death. In PnP, sure: you're either rolling up a new character, someone is saving your ass, or DMvine intervention prevents this from happening to keep the cheap death from ruining everyone's fun. I honestly see this making more problems for DMs (if it would even be a subject for DMs to consider involving themselves in, since if realism is the case, they'd have no reason to unless they sympathize with players who got the shaft... we all do sometimes), and, more importantly, the players. After all, isn't this supposed to be fun for everyone?

This change will only be PVP just to note.

Finding out the killer was a PC and not an NPC takes what... one line? Correct me if I'm wrong X

[Anks]

What if.. there is a way.. so if you died.. and if you couldn't be raised and had to respawn.. your character was messed up for like 24 hours.. or 2 days or something..


I mean.. MESSED UP! couldn't fight.. like you ability points went to like 5 in like dex.. strength and con. Arcanists couldn't cast spells.. something like that.

So if you didn't get a rez or any magical means to heal right away (DM help and such) and must respawn ... you suffer the consequences big time.. You would have to roleplay being messed up for a couple days. I know people could cast restoration.. regeneration.. blah blah.. but for the sake of a persistant world sometimes you have to go out of the rules and just say that your character is so messed up they can barely walk.

I would hate for this to happen even for 24 hours.. your character would be screwed.. if some killer came around attempted to assassinate.. and it didn't go through and got their arses killed .. meaning they would most likely have to respawn. They would suffer big time cause their character would be in this.. Messed up mode and that assassin would have a difficult time beating up a goblin..

If the assassin killed their target.. saying its a Player character and the victim didn't get any assistance.. they would be screwed for a day or whatever time could be implemented.


I don't know.. just a thought..

I never was fond of hearing people say they were killed 5 times in one day.. it would be cool to have someone say.. damn.. i friggin got my arse beat! I can barely walk.. *limps around holding his side with a grim expression*

I also like this idea they are raised by respawn but recive a massive Penalty in which its impossible for them to play the rest of the day so they call it quits with that character for a while and play another.

This will solve alot of the things that happen in this server where someone murders or get murderd and they run into their victims 3 minutes later and its a bit awkward.

[CrimsonTears]

Uh... making people want to quit a character for a day and play another would make it fun how? So maybe I RP my char and someone decides to kill me and I get punished by not being able to do anything with my character for a day? That's a great way to get people to quit, yeah... but not to play another character.

[Pycroft]

..

Make everyone dead wait until resurrected, but make scrolls cheaper. Will be good roleplay, and allow for slavery in Sundren (I resurrected you...saved you from death. Now I OWN you).



Pycroft Aura
Ewan Rice

[CrimsonTears]

Making people remain dead until ressurrected, i.e. no respawn, would be great if we managed to have it not spoil anyone's fun. Cheapening the scrolls isn't the way to go, tho. I agree with Vanilla that it just makes clerics less and less useful in their true role as supporters. If anything, such scrolls should be set to be used only by divine spellcasters or people with use magical device. Seeing a half-orc barbarian read a scroll and bring someone back from the dead always has a bad effect on me

Being able to carry bodies around would be good and would give an extra punishing for loners: getting killed while alone would be very bad. Since the idea of the server is grouping (and common sense says going with others is safer than alone anyways), it wouldn't be a bad thing

On a NWN server I played they solved it in an interesting way. Every player had a "drag corpse" tool. You used it on a corpse and the other player was raised, set as invulnerable, dominated and following the player who used that tool. That makes it easier than creating fugue planes, corpse tokens and other things. A raise or ressurrection scroll would kill the target and raise, NPC clerics were scripted to remove the effects from the PC. It worked nicely there, dunno how it would go in NWN2 tho

[skyde]

Being able to carry bodies around would be good and would give an extra punishing for loners: getting killed while alone would be very bad. Since the idea of the server is grouping (and common sense says going with others is safer than alone anyways), it wouldn't be a bad thing

Punishing loners goes only as far though since there are times when I play when there are 3-6 players online. Hard to find other people at times.

[CrimsonTears]

Yeah, I know and that sucks. But... going alone with lots of people around or with no one else in the server should be just as dangerous, don't ya think? It will get a bit better once Merlin finishes the quest system and people have some stuff to do besides going out kill

Also, if getting killed alone is bad, those 3-6 might actually think it's better to all group together instead of going alone or in pairs to dangerous places

[treznorx]

I hate to bring everquest up , hehe. But having to walk all the way back to your corpse to regain your items went a long way to making death something to be avoided, maybe making it so that you have a certain amount of time and then others can loot your corpse. Maybe making it so that in pvp your corpse can be looted. To the winner goes the spoils.

[CrimsonTears]

That would cause more griefing that it's worth I'm afraid

[b00seven]

lodging a vote for more hardcore... A real feeling of Mortality adds a very realistic tension to the server. It also promotes making allies, so that you become less inclined to suffer the effects of death. Obviously we will need some stepped up DM oversight, as to not have high lvl's mercilessly killing lowbies, but a more hardcore server usually repels those with such tendencies.