Revisit of PVP - What should it be?

[GodBeastX]

I have to admit, I am unhappy with PVP how it's being treated still. DM's keep discussing it and I think the inherit problem of death not being real to a person is still a problem. People tend to kill without fear of dying, just as much as ever.

So, we are DEFINITELY removing challenge ratings from examine of people. You don't know whether this guy can kick your arse or not, period.

This won't fix the issue though. Killers just respawn and life is peachy.

So, I'm wanting to be more hardcore. Saulus does too, and I think in the end it'd be better, but I'm looking for community's feeling.

Should a person be able to respawn after PVP? Basically this means a cleric would have to raise you or someone would have to fork over dough. What this will do is, if a villainous person winds up dead from a mob, he'd be sitting there until someone takes pity on him. It'd be like, karma. Where as a good guy might get pity. I think I'd make it level dependant though, so new players don't get jumped and have no chance to play again Maybe 6+.

[Kaither]

With some tweaking and some alternate ways to respawn mabey. I can think of some bad situations with this super method

[Saulus]

I decided we are going to remove CR ratings because it's only purpose is to serve metagaming so it doesn't need to be there. We will PROBABLY leave it on for creatures though.

[GodBeastX]

Just remember. Scrolls are for sale at temples to res people. Maybe we'd lower the price if we implement this so people can help their buddies, but I think it'd make conflict more real for both people. I want to see more running, and less fighting to the death.

And we DEFINITELY wouldn't implement this until I get subdual in so you could beat someone to an inch of their life.

[Stratigo]

Depends on the PvP I beleive.

I say for murder yes someone would actually have to raise that body, because I doubt the temple will raise a murderer. But what happens to the victim. Do they have to wait to be raised? What if they got ambushed in a random area. Are they screwed?

[GodBeastX]

Remember, DM's can raise people too And we generally have DM's on at most times of day.

I think people forget that even if you die and respawn, the temple wouldn't res the body without the resources needed to do it. Most people remain dead in the world cuz it costs regeants to res them.

[Stratigo]

heh thats why I have my character so he can't stay dead. Cause it makes more sence. But if DMs will raise victims then yes I think we should implement the pvp.

[Luck.exe]

I voted to wait until someone raises them because it's character interaction with other characters. You know what I mean? It isn't like you are killing some Banite Cleric or something, it's your vs another character with some RP behind it (hopefully) and generally your corpse is either left there to do whatever or they carry the body off to a temple, or something.

[Belwas]

Harsher XP penalties or even a level loss would add much to the strategy side of things. This would force groups to cooperate more and to have a battle plan... my front-line fighter would be much more cautious when holding the line against tougher foes when faced with a level loss due to a couple of critical hits.
But I for one think that dying should mean a lot more than it does now.

However if those types of penalties are put in place, please no more elder elementals.

[psycho1976]

IFs:
*Lowering the cost of the scrolls
*Making it level dependent.

Pros:
+ Makes it (hopefully) less likely that PvP in its current state occurs. Getting sick of seeing/hearing about it...

Cons:
- Innocents can get killed in remote places and not getting a raise, unless lucky and a DM notices. Not everyone finds it fun looking at their corpse for 15 minutes. Especially if you are innocent Thus can lead to people logging off in frustration.
- Increase in meta-gaming. "Come rescue me plz!" either in tells or in PMs/IM.

Just trying to cover all the bases here. Personally I think you can try it

[GodBeastX]

Cons:
- Innocents can get killed in remote places and not getting a raise, unless lucky and a DM notices. Not everyone finds it fun looking at their corpse for 15 minutes. Especially if you are innocent Thus can lead to people logging off in frustration.
- Increase in meta-gaming. "Come rescue me plz!" either in tells or in PMs/IM.

Just trying to cover all the bases here. Personally I think you can try it

I've thought about the cons. The CR missing will make rampant PVP less too, since people will not be as certain they can win

Lowbies will likely get to respawn since they're too easy to pick on.

I'd like innocents to be more careful too. You might be an innocent, but you can't run around going "I don't care what's going on around me, I'm innocent!". Stay with friends, make friends and watch each other's backs, and don't follow strange people into caves who might turn on you.

[Zoberraz]

We can't really run away since everyone runs at about the same speed. Running away pretty much exposes you to a lot of attacks of opportunity and not much else. ~_~

I'd like to mention that I don't think removing the challenge rating out of the 'examine' function will make much of a difference - at least in my eyes: the level of a person really has nothing to do with Maia's decision to attack.

Also, measuring their competency usually comes from watching them fight or fighting them; for example, I know Nocte is pretty strong from watching him manage to kick 3/4 of Maia's HP away pretty easily.

[CrimsonTears]

It's a start, but I personally think it might just make people want revenge more and generate yet more PvP. People who like PvP feel little satisfaction in killing someone who will just come back, but if it keeps them dead and all that, people will want revenge every time they are killed, going with as mob of friends. It makes sense in the way of people striking back, but the whole fixation on resolving everything by killing will remain.

I think something else is needed, be it instead or along with this: proper consequences. Killing is bad. Killing repeatedly in a world with wizards and spells is living on the run all over the world. But we don't have all over the world for people to flee unless they leave the server (heh ), so if it's a habit, killers will get caught. No matter how smart, no matter how disguised, no matter how sneaky. If a killing spree starts and there are no mundane clues, authorities will go after divine and arcane magic to find the murderer and make it stop. Assassins become powerful and successful only in two scenarios in a world with magic: by living in a place where they know the law will back them or by living on the run all across the continent. I don't think the server provides either and don't see why it should, being a somewhat "closed society"

[GodBeastX]

We can't really run away since everyone runs at about the same speed. Running away pretty much exposes you to a lot of attacks of opportunity and not much else. ~_~

I'd like to mention that I don't think removing the challenge rating out of the 'examine' function will make much of a difference - at least in my eyes: the level of a person really has nothing to do with Maia's decision to attack.

Also, measuring their competency usually comes from watching them fight or fighting them; for example, I know Nocte is pretty strong from watching him manage to kick 3/4 of Maia's HP away pretty easily.

Removing it will make alot of difference. I see it alot. People run from higher levels, and pick on lower ones.

I personally don't use it, cuz you can win against anyone, but I think the fear of "Man, I might be laying here dead awhile before someone decides I should come alive" might make people think twice.

[VanillaRose]

I would say increase the cost of raise dead scrolls. It's definitely personal bias (as I enjoy playing clerics,) but I've always hated the fact that one of the most important things a cleric can do... can be done by everyone else, too. Besides, if death has meaning... it would create a lot of additional roleplay for the PC clerics if they suddenly have a use as something other than a fighter with a deity.

But as I don't want to turn this into a discussion about clerics... suffice to say that yes - I think consequences for death are definitely needed. I think the CR ratings removal is a good place to start, but on a server where a lot of faces are seen on a daily basis... and we know that the xp has time limit... it isn't really that hard to make an educated guess as to what level someone is near.

What concerns me the most is that this will do nothing but hurt the people who die while the people who kill go unchecked. If we add harsher death penalties... I would propose that we add harsher punishments if a known killer is caught.