Sundren One Month-ish in Review

[Nivar]

Sundren Three...ish Months in Review. Guess it has only been a month and six days actually. :O What I get for making a post right when I woke up! It feels longer gosh darn it. Three months in game time?..

I first came to Sundren after the sudden downfall of Tales of Amn, it was recomended by Lostinspace, and a few others that used to play on Tales of Amn. I have been part of the NWN community for several years. I have played on several servers in both NWN1 and NWN2. As is probably obvious I do prefer role-play servers. After playing here for one month-ish I am ready to share with you my thoughts about the server, the good and the bad.

First the Bad, because I like to end with the good stuff!

1) No significant retirement system for characters you are done with. Yes, I know there is one in place to turn your character into an NPC. However, I think you would retain probably up to 50% more players if you had a 50% RCR system like several other servers. Without this type of system when people get tired of a character many shelf them and begin an alt, but get bored with the slow low level grind and end up quitting the server.

2) When the Tales of Amn players first came to the server the DMs seemed much more involved than they are presently. I know that several of the DMs have probably been here for years and are probably burned out. However, nothing turns off players faster than no DMs around. I think this is a problem many servers face, and I have no significant suggestion to this other than recruiting new DM blood should never stop on a server or it faces certain death.

3) Low level difficulty. I think that the low level difficulty is a bit extreme. I understand that the server wishes to cater towards grouping. However, at low level and as a new player grouping up is often just not an option. Players who have played here a while can overcome the difficulty level because they know the quests and monsters. However, to a new player just signing in getting stomped in your first quest can be disheartening. I know the intro quest was toned down from what it was. Thank goodness! However, I think perhaps it could be toned down even more. So that there is almost no chance of failure for a new player to the server. Get them hooked before stomping their faces.

4) The Crafting System and appearance changing...... Wow, makes me dizzy just trying to comprehend how anyone would enjoy this. Just put in a regular appearance changer and let people make their characters look how they want. Leave some things unchangeable like faction armors and call it a day.

Now for the good things! The things that have kept me playing here for a now disclosed period of time...

1) The Roleplayers. The players on this server are good. Team evil, Team good, and Team in-between. Good stuff guys. You are the reason that players will truly stay on this server for the long haul. Once they figure out the quality of Roleplay you can provide.

2) The faction system. A truly unique aspect to the NWN2 worlds. The only change I would make is to the recommendation system to allow players more of a hand in helping their fellow faction members advance in the ranks. Faction leaders should be given even more ability to reward people in their faction, even above and beyond what you could possibly get from banner returns. This would encourage more Roleplay and less banner grinding in my opinion.

3) Level Cap: I think it is actually a good thing. Though I know some will disagree. Epic levels are still attainable but they are truly something special here and the result of lots of time and effort into the server.

4) Overland map. Oh how I love the time saving mechanics of having this over having to walk over 20 zones to get to where you want to go. Less realistic but I will take it!

5) Vampires. They give the server an edge and dangerous feeling. When the sun sets you can feel the tensions rise on the server. Love it. Well done vampire players.

All in all I think Sundren has several good things going for it. However, I think that new and old player retention could be the servers biggest downfall. Make it a bit easier for the new players, and a bit more rewarding for the old players by allowing them to RCR their old characters into something new and shiny.

Nivar-

[FoogooFish]

Thank you for your post. Aside from a small nitpick about the time - ToA has been gone a bit over one month, not three - you've done a good job of giving critiques with suggestions for improvements as well as ending on a positive note.

I am confident that the rest of the Sundren Team will be as receptive to your post, as the dwindling NWN2 community means that sudden influxes of players from server implosions will be quite rare. Player retention is important lest we find ourselves in single-digits and wondering how to save Sundren; a fresh perspective such as this one certainly helps!

Again, thank you.

[LOLC2k]

I can echo most of this. I do favor an appearance changer and some for of rcr system.

[thaelis]

1) No significant retirement system for characters you are done with.

2) ...recruiting new DM blood should never stop on a server or it faces certain death.

3) Low level difficulty.

4) The Crafting System and appearance changing......

Some thoughts on these points from a long(ish) time player.

1) I don't like to retire characters anyway :P

2) Doesn't bother me, I especially like how lately DM's have been scheduling events via forums so you can make time to attend.

3) Again this hasn't bothered me, but I can see how it may put new new players off.

4) Gods yes!! Should wearing the Hat/Robes/Cloak of Ultimate Power really come at the cost of looking like a demented clown monkey? Really...?

[sonuvalich]

Did someone same DM_Sandro for new blood? Oh wait, you're looking for GOOD ideas!

I am happy to get a perspective from a newer player (not that I'm all that old myself) because Sundren is the only multiplayer server I have spent appreciable time on, so I don't have much of a frame of reference to other servers to compare and contrast.

I agree with pretty much all of the points, and I know DM's have school/work/family stuff going on but there has been a sharp decline in online DM's and a mirrored decline in online players. My hunch is that it is not cause and effect so much as seasonal effects (both players and DM's being too busy, not lack of DM's leading to lack of players) but the end result seems to be frustration from many of the online players that things feel like they are stagnating. So I strongly support con #2 up above about maybe having a DM/dev drive to get some more bodies to throw at the task, provided capable and skilled people are available.

Overall kudos to Nivar for the constructive criticism, and for choosing to end on a positive note (something I am trying to replicate in this post)

[Saulus]

The DM situation is unlikely to change for a multitude of reasons

1) Lack of people to recruit as DMs
2) Lack of people that would actually be good DMs to recruit
3) Good DMs generally rather be a player and split their time

Most DMs go inactive after a month or we end up finding out they decided to ignore our DM rules, play favourites, whatever. Then the complaint becomes "A DM ran a stupid event I'm not playing on this server anymore."

If people find the opposite of this on another server, then I guess clearly they have some kind of magic sauce that we don't.

[[DM] Grinning Death]

1) No significant retirement system for characters you are done with. Yes, I know there is one in place to turn your character into an NPC. However, I think you would retain probably up to 50% more players if you had a 50% RCR system like several other servers. Without this type of system when people get tired of a character many shelf them and begin an alt, but get bored with the slow low level grind and end up quitting the server.

2) When the Tales of Amn players first came to the server the DMs seemed much more involved than they are presently. I know that several of the DMs have probably been here for years and are probably burned out. However, nothing turns off players faster than no DMs around. I think this is a problem many servers face, and I have no significant suggestion to this other than recruiting new DM blood should never stop on a server or it faces certain death.

3) Low level difficulty. I think that the low level difficulty is a bit extreme. I understand that the server wishes to cater towards grouping. However, at low level and as a new player grouping up is often just not an option. Players who have played here a while can overcome the difficulty level because they know the quests and monsters. However, to a new player just signing in getting stomped in your first quest can be disheartening. I know the intro quest was toned down from what it was. Thank goodness! However, I think perhaps it could be toned down even more. So that there is almost no chance of failure for a new player to the server. Get them hooked before stomping their faces.

4) The Crafting System and appearance changing...... Wow, makes me dizzy just trying to comprehend how anyone would enjoy this. Just put in a regular appearance changer and let people make their characters look how they want. Leave some things unchangeable like faction armors and call it a day.

I think these are some good ideas, and I'd like to address them as best as my knowledge can.

1. I like the idea for a better character retirement system as well. My only concern with doing so would be that it detracts from the overall RP in favor of grinding. Still, I can see how this and #3 tie in together. Maybe a bump to level 5 or 7 to get things started quicker? Please, if you can I'd like you to PM me the systems you're talking about.

2. Not much to say here. We have about six or seven active DM's, and we each contribute about 10 hours a week to the server (or so say the staff numbers). If there needs to be more, there needs to be more, but we're always accepting applications for good DM's who can commit to time and quality of DM'ing.

3. This also seems like a good idea. I haven't played a level 3 in a while, so I'll see about testing it out with a few alts and trying to get a feel for it. If you could send your own experiences or those you know to us, it'd help greatly.

4. The crafting system has been broken for ages. As far as I know, there are plans to implement an appearance changer in relatively soon.

Anyway, thank you for your constructive criticism. It really has been a help, and serves as a greater motivator for us DM's to work harder at this community. Please keep coming back, and we'll do our best to make your experience here a good one.

[cmosier]

1. Not really sure. If the next character was tied in some how, maybe. Other than that, I'm good with starting over. I'm strange like that.

2. I assume DMs are like myself and have other things to do at times. We can always work as players to make things interesting and attempt to make the DM's job easier.

3. Disagree completely. It used to be really really difficult. I thought they turned it down several notches. Again, I'm strange and like slower level progression.

4. Yes. That's all I can really add.

I've really enjoyed role playing with Laurana and look forward to seeing how her and Byrun continue to interact.

[Blakemanfresh]

[DM]Grinning Death ran an event me and my friends yesterday and it was great! i've never done anything with a dm before and yes I am new to nwn2, but that event will keep me comming back for sure, he did a fantastic job.

(he was lenient on me too which I am glad)

[Kitsunestume]

The only point I feel I can add anything:

#4: The crafting system we currently have is pretty effective, and I'm willing to hap anyone try to get as enthusiastic about it as I am. That being said, more variety would be appreciated. As for finding it fun. . . I'm open for Armor commissions all the time, Presuming I actually near my desktop.

Cheers,
Kit

[Urbancat]

New player myself, I can totally agree with point 4. I like,to play with my virtual dolls, and I can spend hours trying to dress them in a way I like, so an appearance changer is something I do like, and use often. The only real flaw I feel in this server is the lack of one.

[kuscotopia]

4) The Crafting System and appearance changing...... Wow, makes me dizzy just trying to comprehend how anyone would enjoy this. Just put in a regular appearance changer and let people make their characters look how they want. Leave some things unchangeable like faction armors and call it a day.

Hey, now..let's not get ahead of ourselves. The crafting system is a cruel mistress..this is known, but I love her anyhow. A healthy in-game economy of goods is an amazing thing and I for one think a character has all the more depth if they are able to help create the server around them.

I would like to see the dev ban on the crafting system lifted. I know great pain went into including this initial version and there is rightful concern over it changing. However, I feel it adds an extra dimension of play on Sundren.

[FoogooFish]

I'm torn when it comes to the crafting system. On one hand, it's actually quite neat in the way it interconnects. On the other hand, that type of system needs a lot bigger player base than an old game like NWN2 and a dwindling PW community supports. It makes sense to switch to a do-it-yourself system to promote player retention, but just because these things make sense doesn't mean some of us old folks won't prefer the old ways. Get off our lawns.

[Dispater]

I too like the need for resource gathering, and unlike most I like the limitations on appearance. This is not to say I am not for other ways to make crafting a touch easier.. As of now you have to earn getting the look you want, it doesn't just come free and whenever you want. The only thing I would want to see changed is the ability to slightly alter found/purchased armor (Likely incredibly difficult/impossible in NWN2). Say you buy the 'Refurbished Everwatch Armor' you would have the ability to change the shoulders/bracers/legs/etc. but you couldn't change the color or chest plate model (with some exceptions for models with tabards/ some leather models).

For mundane armors, let the fashion show begin (with some appearance restrictions of course). I'd also support a gold cost to simulate paying a blacksmith to alter your purchase.



This is my opinion, not the official stance of the staff by any means..

[Kitsunestume]

I too like the need for resource gathering, and unlike most I like the limitations on appearance. This is not to say I am not for other ways to make crafting a touch easier.. As of now you have to earn getting the look you want, it doesn't just come free and whenever you want. The only thing I would want to see changed is the ability to slightly alter found/purchased armor (Likely incredibly difficult/impossible in NWN2). Say you buy the 'Refurbished Everwatch Armor' you would have the ability to change the shoulders/bracers/legs/etc. but you couldn't change the color or chest plate model (with some exceptions for models with tabards/ some leather models).

For mundane armors, let the fashion show begin (with some appearance restrictions of course). I'd also support a gold cost to simulate paying a blacksmith to alter your purchase.



This is my opinion, not the official stance of the staff by any means..

I like this. Perhaps have a check against the DC to craft the Armor in the first place, so that sufficiently skilled artisans could perform alterations at a much reduced cost or free, perks for investing skill-points and all that jazz. The ability to make Mastercraft gear would also be a nice touch. Although it would help if attack bonus on weapons didn't count against the number of available enchants.