Discussion: PVP

[GDwarf]

I dislike the whole "Hey, let me just get some buddies and then kill all that guy!"

Why? Because it continues forever in a world where death doesn't mean much. You'll have people that log on and then immediately try to find this other person to kill them.

After a while this stops being fun for either side, but the idea that you must get revenge stays around. Heck, your character has gone out of his way to kill this guy before, why stop now?

[Myrddin]

I dislike the whole "Hey, let me just get some buddies and then kill all that guy!"

Why? Because it continues forever in a world where death doesn't mean much. You'll have people that log on and then immediately try to find this other person to kill them.

After a while this stops being fun for either side, but the idea that you must get revenge stays around. Heck, your character has gone out of his way to kill this guy before, why stop now?

Sorry, I agree with GDwarf. And, frankly no matter how you argue, twist or dictate, players are far to inventive, and they will find a RP reason to just hunt characters down over and over and over and over and over and over and over, etc.

So, while many of you wish to engage in an activity I don't find fitting the spirit of the game Gary Gygax created that is your right, but please do not include me.

[valenator]

Gary Gygax's "vision" for this game became irrelevant a long time ago. That players can portray infernal, celestial, or racially evil characters underscores that point. PvP is a basic necessity for any server that allows and encourages its players to play fundamentally opposed races.

I'll now rip an idea from a different NWN PW:

Make all PvP deaths no-respawn. The PC's body remains in the field until someone comes along and resurrects them. To facilitate this, institute this idea - haunting.

Allow a slain PC to "haunt" any number of living PCs. Consider the slain PC's soul to be in the fugue, and from this point, the PC is allowed to telepathically communicate with a PC acquaintance, projecting images of the fallen in so much as identity and location. PC's with friends are more likely to find life again. PC's without friends are more likely to stay dead.

Furthermore, remove memory-loss from the encounter. If a PC is bold enough to strike another down without concealing himself or herself, then that PC is bold enough to deal with the possible repercussions of that action, including finding himself or herself face down in the dirt and hoping for someone to come along and deem them worthy of another chance at life.

[Cassiel]

This discussion sure gets people upset. Well, I hope it can be discussed calmly so this input is actually considered by the staff.

I think the point here is to put reasonable rules in place so that:

1: PvP death has consiquences
2: PvP is fun for all involved
3: If people break the rules (grief/rp killing people again, again, again, etc) they can be dealt with.

If that said.

1: I still think a long PvP death timer will give PvP more meaning and add an element of fear and humility to encounters. That char is knocked out of play for 12 hours. Or perhaps, their stats are reduced to 2 for 12 hours, so they can still RP their recovery, just can't go out fighting.

2: Some form of conscent is required. If someone mouths off to another person, or threatens them with harm, this is considered conscent.

3: People can submit to DM staff when they feel they are being unfairly killed repeatedly, and per rules in place, DM staff will investigate.

Keep it cool ice cold, stay cool.

[Autumn]

Ummm, just about half the rules are made to try to stop metagaming and negative behavior Saying "You shouldn't make rules because people try to cheat, you should try to stop the cheating" doesn't make sense, since we made the rule to try to stop the cheating.

It was also to try to stop the "Back and forth" PVP scenario.

I know, I know. You're right, of course. It's a depressing fact, though, isn't it?

[Squat45]

A lot of these rules can still be misconstrued to where "consent" can be given no matter what... "Well, he didn't give me the proper respect" or "He didn't prostrate himself before me and do my bidding". I still think the only 100% way that you can avoid all of this is to specifically require agreement to PvP prior to actual combat... and that consent has to be explicit.

Anyways... that's my 2 cents...

Sitting and waiting for approval... lol

[GDwarf]

Make all PvP deaths no-respawn.

I dislike this. Since it means that new characters stay dead forever should they offend the wrong person. It also make griefing much, much easier.

[undeadsteak]

Uhm, not really. Don't forget ressurction!

[Cassiel]

to specifically require agreement to PvP prior to actual combat... and that consent has to be explicit.

True enough. What would be neat is if some sort of "PvP Approve/Deny" popup could be added to the OOC tool, so that you target someone and they are met with an option on their screen to approve or deny of PVP. Then, if they deny PVP, they have to back down in their RP. This could be logged in the system for if it was denied or approved.

On the NWN PW I play, I'm a member of the Dark Knights. They are the boogiemen, much like drow are here. Many times an encounter could/would involve PVP unless that other person backed down. We are basically closely policed, and there has to be PvP conscent.

The problem there is, folks just say "no I dont want to PVP" and then continue to talk smack to the big mean deamon guy with a glowing red greatsword with skulls impaled on his armor, and he can do nothing about it.

If it has to be black and white conscentual, then that person denying PvP has to RP being scared and running away.

[GDwarf]

Uhm, not really. Don't forget ressurction!

How would you ressurect if you need a friend to revive you and you don't have any friends?

Short of PCs running around raising all the people on the ground, you won't get rezzed. Besides, if people are running around reviving people, that defeats the entire point of the altered rule.

[undeadsteak]

Ehrm, why doesn't your char have any friends.. and if your a loner, then too bad. you chose to be a loner.

[GDwarf]

I'm not trying to play my character as a loner. In fact, I'm trying to make him a leader. However, he has all of one IG friend, who is rarely one when I am, and who is also level 3 (maybe 4), not exactly able to rez anything.

Just think about it: What happens if someone creates a character, logs on, and then immediately gets threatened by, say, a Drow, they decide to fight, and then, hey, presto! Perma-death, no second chance. Time to roll up a new character.


Edit: I'm all for penalties on PvP death, having them would stop the never-ending revenge game, but something that can stop you from playing your character? No, it's just a bad idea.

Make people lose a level, or suffer ability penalties for 24 hours, or something like that, but nothing where your character is incapable of doing anything or adapting. Simply saying: "I'm sorry, you're not popular enough to keep playing this character." smacks of arrogance.

[undeadsteak]

Im sure swomone will find your corpse sooner or later. and why not travel with a group, why are you just walking around alone, and getting ambushed by a drow? why not run?

[valenator]

It's not that hard to make friends. If you play an abrasive, offensive character, you should reap the consequences of your social stigma. Furthermore, players should have the good sense to avoid slaughtering dramatically lower level characters. If they don't, those players can be taken aside and adjusted. Likewise, a lower level PC should have the good sense to avoid running his mouth to an obviously superior PC.

Part of roleplaying in a community is tempering one's reactions to maximize fun factor when necessary. If you want your PC to be a mouthy badass, great, but do it when he's capable of defending himself. For now, when the drow says, "Kneel or die" or the half-orc says, "Pay up or die," kneel or pay up. Hold a grudge. Exact vengeance when you're capable.

[Myrddin]

For now, when the drow says, "Kneel or die" or the half-orc says, "Pay up or die," kneel or pay up. Hold a grudge. Exact vengeance when you're capable.

So, when I say leave me out of it, you're telling me that I do not have the right to say I'm not interested in it? Rather dictatorial of you, isn?t it?