A Sundren Discussion

[GodBeastX]

GodBeastX started the Scarlet Lions in the headquarters of what was now Corps de Grace. It was a Tormite deal I got going in my insanity of being online for 60 hours a week DM'ing.

Yes, I spent nearly every waking moment DMing and went bonkers cuz of it

I've been logging in more lately, I'm sure people noticed me last night.

Anyway,

Pagan, encourage people to stop grumbling to you and grumble to me. While everyone becomes vocal with problems, there's a condition in communities of a mob mentality where when people start grumbling, their problem slowly changes in their minds to match the mob, even though they might be completely different scenarios.

Just to give an example:

"It's hard to level in Sundren!"

"You know what? You're right, it is hard! I had trouble yesterday!"

"Yeah, how about you Greg?"

"Totally hard for me too!"

Why is it hard? Well, that is dependent upon so many factors that just get lumped together in the voices. Now, if this group makes a post "It's hard to level in sundren" how can I fix anything without knowing why, for that single person, it's hard.

One thing I analyzed was the fact we had a high amount of undead in Sundren and some classes struggle with undead where others don't. Change them to be a little more equal across the board and you end up with an easier time for some people.

That's a small example.

But there is absolutely no benefit, and I'm being serious now for the first time in this thread... it happens <_< >_>... but there is no benefit to this statement as far as problem solving goes:

My post has nothing to do with me and I thought I was very direct about that. I am comfortable and happy about my status on the server, I have fun with what I do, and I don't feel the need to have tons of attention pointed my way. This has to do with many FACTUAL events and occurances I have witnessed since 2007 on the server and what a lot of people, currently and in the past, have complained to me about.

Summarizing this statement to "There is a problem, people told me about it, and I saw evidence of it."

Imagine you are a programmer and someone came to you with:

"There's a problem with your software. A friend told me and I saw a problem before."

Great... so what bug am I fixing?

You also have to realize, since 2007 we've cycled absolutely every DM on the server save me and Saulus. 100% of them. None that were there in 2007 exist today. So what favoritism some guy may have shown may be gone. And I can say 100%, some DMs were doing shiesty things. Very shiesty, and we didn't always know about it, even though players may have.

I can't fix a problem unless the nature of the problem comes to me with symptoms that caused it.

Does that make sense?

And honestly, I feel bad for Dain for having a finger pointed at him, I really do. Whether intentional or not, because now he could end up self conscious about any moment he gets any DM attention and possibly feel guilt.

[blurry89]

And honestly, I feel bad for Dain for having a finger pointed at him, I really do. Whether intentional or not, because now he could end up self conscious about any moment he gets any DM attention and possibly feel guilt.

Oh, don't worry, he won't.

[Chiangtao]

Technically we cycled through you too, GBX

[Snowmane]

Imagine you are a programmer and someone came to you with:

"There's a problem with your software. A friend told me and I saw a problem before."

Great... so what bug am I fixing?

This makes me sad because it describes my typical workday.

[BedlamX]

Same.

"The signals at the corner of Bob Street and Carl Avenue are all jacked up. My wife sat there 10 minutes before it changed and I've seen it, too."

[Torgar]

I've been a member of "Team Dain" since the whole "Warden of Wrath" shindig, where I was that Spirit shaman up for the title. I was there for Mirakus, me and Dain talked for hours, for a week, deciding what temple to put at the Lacroix Estate, was there the entire breadth of the "Myrkul's rising" series of events, dealt with a whole lot of vampire shenanigans, and I can tell you all this: You seriously have to have humongous, ginormous balls to deal with the crap we dealt with.

I'm not kidding, I can't count the number of times me and Dain were in the death room, in hell, imprisoned, tortured, beaten, bloodied, and flat out just man handled. The fact is, there are not a lot of people who can die in that many events, or have their characters humiliated and beaten by the enemy that many times, and not get just plain pissed at it.

And I took pride in it all. So did Dain. That's why he's in those events. It's not about the RP, or the build, or the class, or any of it. It's about, in the end, being a good sport about the event no matter what happens. I'd ask all of you to take a real look deep inside yourselves and ask this: If you were in an event, and your favorite character were killed, and it was going to be permanent, would you be able to be ok with that? Could you just roll with the event, and not be mad the DM killed you? Or if you lost your favorite, expensive item. Could you just let it slide, and keep going?

Because there are not a lot of us that could. And that's why the there were so many events for Roguethree for a while: He was a good sport about all of it. That's why I was allowed to come along: I was a good sport about it. That's all that matters.

Roguethree's paladin: Level 23. His gear? Awesome. His storyline? Rich. Chance for him to survive the coming darkness and not just get murdered forever? 15%. So, ask yourselves: Would you be fine with that level of attention, if you knew that someday, that character was very likely to be gone forever? Not just fine, but able to be proud of it? Because if so, you belong on "Team Dain" because that's the team that takes it's punches like champions.

I don't care if this came off arrogant, because I am arrogant. This post will likely upset people because I"m making it sound like I'm better then them. I'm not though, I don't know you to be better then you. But if this is a game, and the point of a game is to have fun, then "Team Dain" is better at winning the game then you, if you are taking offense at this post.

Playtime=favor. Good RP=favor. Good sportsmanship? That equals win and awesome. If you are enjoying the GAME of playing on Sundren, then you have won. If you are unhappy about playing the GAME of Sundren, then you are losing. You need to find a way to have fun, and win.

And GBX is totally right. If there is something legitimately bugging you, or even illegitimately, you need to tell a staff member EXACTLY what it is. And not just what's bugging you, but why it's bugging you, and how YOU feel it could be fixed. It's hard for anyone, especially a staff member, to meet you half way on a problem when he doesn't know where the half way mark is because you haven't told him/her.

As a note, I would like to point out that the above examples of events including myself and Roguethree are not indicative of the usual way events go. Most events are pleasant, friendly little things that rarely if ever are fatal to the participants. Do not try Roguethree events at home, they are done by trained professionals. If you are pregnant or think you may become pregnant, Roguethree events are not for you. Roguethree events are a two drink minimum, of straight liquor. Please, call your DM if any serious side effects occur as a result of a Roguethree event. Side effects may include: Headaches, nausea, upset stomach, sneezing, coughing, cancer, the gaining of items of epic power, the losing of items of epic power, being fed on by vampires, being killed by vampires, being made fun of by vampires for wearing silly purple boots, having a smart ass elven shaman constantly call you "Boss" to mock you, and having every woman in a ten mile radius want to sleep with your character. Don't operate heavy machinery within four hours of a Roguethree event.

[Chiangtao]

The fact is, there are not a lot of people who can die in that many events, or have their characters humiliated and beaten by the enemy that many times, and not get just plain pissed at it.

Admittedly, I'm not often one of those people. Kudos to you!

[Thief Of Navarre]

Roguethree's paladin: Level 23. His gear? Awesome. His storyline? Rich. Chance for him to survive the coming darkness and not just get murdered forever? 15%. So, ask yourselves: Would you be fine with that level of attention, if you knew that someday, that character was very likely to be gone forever? Not just fine, but able to be proud of it? Because if so, you belong on "Team Dain" because that's the team that takes it's punches like champions.

I would. Too busy litterally playing the paladin in real life to devote that much time to sundren. I wish I could play more cause I love this place when things come together! Kudos to all involved.

[Dave Fritz]

I believe there is another issue in all this. Before I elaborate, I don't have an answer or a way of fixing it. But it may help to explain some of the perceived problem.

The issue is play times.

If you play at a time when server population is low, and DM population is low (or even non-existant) you are not going to see many events, etc. DMs have their available times just like the rest of us. I do not see DMs very often when I log on, but I can hardly expect them to adjust to my play times.

There is an effect, though. In my experience, a lot of player-run mini-quests (rewarded or not) seem to peter out, even though they can involve on-going story lines. First, it's harder to get everyone together to continue. Second, after a while, with no perceived effect on the story line, you lose interest. Once you lose interest, you tend to log on less and stay a lesser time when you do. Of course it's kind of a chicken-and-egg thing, since all the aspects feed off one another.

The only real solution I can think of is to change play times, but we all (DMs and players alike) have times when we can be on and times we can't, so implementing the solution is problematic.