A Sundren Discussion

[Jhickey]

Am I still in the Kasso Cool Cat House club?

Either way GBX, Torgar, and Chint made great points we are all humans at the end of the day. We all have our favorite people to hang around with, and even DMs. I personally will ask GD questions all the time, where is I don't feel as comfortable asking some of the other DMs. That is just preference, I feel comfortable having a conversation with him. I don't by any means think that he gives me more attention than other PCs. (GD you are welcome to contradict me)

The fact will always remain, it matters what time and effort you put into the game. Nothing can happen without player involvement.

I can tell you it's tough to do something epic if your time is so variable (Like mine), or you don't openly ask to be involved in an event.

Any way I have forgotten what the main point was supposed to be, but we can all work together to keep this community intact and pleasant for all the "humans" involved.

Now we can all exercise Peace, Love, Unity, respect, and whatever emotion you may want to attach to us getting along.

“The best thing to give to your enemy is forgiveness; to an opponent, tolerance; to a friend, your heart; to your child, a good example; to a father, deference; to your mother, conduct that will make her proud of you; to yourself, respect; to all men, charity.” Benjamin Franklin



And for Black History month



“I'm not concerned with your liking or disliking me... All I ask is that you respect me as a human being.” Jackie Robinson

[roguethree]

Favoritism absolutely exists, and the reasons some PCs are included and others aren't are many.

I'd like to use me as an example because . . .

he is an exceptional role player. His command of the English language and thoughtful insight into Sundren lore make his dialog some of the best on this server – hands down.

. . . I'm a role model, obviously.

Anyway, Dain has enjoyed a nice run at the "top." Great gear, his name's all over recent important server events, epic level, bad guys don't want none, etc. Now, part of that is because . . .

he is an exceptional role player. His command of the English language and thoughtful insight into Sundren lore make his dialog some of the best on this server – hands down.

And part of it's because when Dain was conceived, the Triad was an empty faction in a time when the Black Hand was prevalent, when Clive was still roaming the hills and putting boots to asses. Because Dain wasn't just the only Tyrran paladin, but the only paladin period to be the quintessential knight in shining armor standing against the rising tide of darkness. Right place, right time, right concept, right player, but . . .

Dain would be [something different] without me. I [was a huge part of] what he is today.

. . . this is also true. Now, Saulus and I aren't and weren't super tight OOC buds before everything went down. He basically said to the entire server, "Here's an opportunity for a PC. Be at X place at Y time." Around ten people showed up for this opportunity, and it came down to choosing a paladin, a spirit shaman, and a Thayan Knight for the role of being Sundren's champion against a bunch of corporeal undead. Well, he chose a paladin, and that's not surprising. Paladins do three things well: kill evil, kill undead, and exclude shifty people from groups. When you've got a slot open for a undead-killing machine, and you've got one applying whose god is also directly opposed to the god[s] causing all the problems, it's not a difficult choice. And thus Dain - Warden of Wrath, Savior of Mirakus, Redeemer of Souls, Returner of Myrkul, Remover of Vampires, Raiser of Temples, get-your-gods-damned-foot-off-of-evil's-neck-so-they-can-do-something - Tornbrook was born.

And with all that, I took some ass beatings. Public ass beatings. Railroaded, die-in-a-fire, here's-your-humble-pie ass beatings. Comes with the territory. Right place, right time, right role, right PC, right player. Unique opportunity. Yeah, obviously it's favoritism. I got sexy new armor because people were making fun of Dain's purple boots. But the favoritism was for the role being filled, not so much the player filling the role.

People in Dain's good graces enjoyed some perks due to Dain's prominence. Part of this was because . . .

he is an exceptional role player. His command of the English language and thoughtful insight into Sundren lore make his dialog some of the best on this server – hands down.

. . . and that attracts attention, and being near the attention often pays dividends (except for Tigen, who just ends up taking the beating reserved for me).

Is there favoritism? Yeah, but that will happen when . . .

he is an exceptional role player. His command of the English language and thoughtful insight into Sundren lore make his dialog some of the best on this server – hands down.

It's natural. It's human. But for those of us who are receiving our (more than) fair share of the lovin', we can reach out to include the people that we see not getting many looks. Despite paladinhood, Dain's quested-with list is pretty eclectic; it's just one way to help more people enjoy me, because . . .

he is an exceptional role player. His command of the English language and thoughtful insight into Sundren lore make his dialog some of the best on this server – hands down.

Favoritism is going to happen. Some PCs will shine more brightly than others. It's not malicious; it's just the way of things. Stories have heroes, villains, and all the inbetweens. Sometimes you're an inbetween; I've played plenty. Best way to get your ball rolling, is to come up with a good idea, and not just any good idea, but a good idea that gets people from different groups involved. When we retook Mirakus, it was a group comprised of the Triad, Legion, Red Blades, Wardens, and Thayans. Cross-faction action. Get a big, inclusive idea, and then make sure you include me, because . . .

he is an exceptional role player. His command of the English language and thoughtful insight into Sundren lore make his dialog some of the best on this server – hands down.

. . . and I love me some XPs.

Dain's not the only big gun out there, btw. DMs have tried to give a lot of people the ball, and most of them drop it, either through lack of commitment or just plain ol' absence. Two prospective Wardens of Wrath said, "Yeah-yeah!" and then disappeared, one after a ceremony and everything. I've seen two big, bad evil NPCS not named Clive get uberperks to be champions of destruction and then just stop playing those PCs before a DM could even get them any momentum going. Sometimes, players just don't meet the DMs halfway.

Final thought:

But I do not feel the need to kiss his arse.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[Thief Of Navarre]

Saying the same thing over and over again isnt convincing. In fact you just went down in my estimation with that post. Yes, you made some good points albeit.

Still a minor negative.

[roguethree]

If you look up, up, way up, you'll see the humor.

[Root]

I got sexy new armor because people were making fun of Dain's purple boots.

Heh, I was told that players never get new or appearance-changed gear just because they don't like the appearance of their current stuff.

I'd have a longer post, but that sentence alone kind of sums up my feelings so neatly that any more is pointless.

[roguethree]

Heh, I was told that players never get new or appearance-changed gear just because they don't like the appearance of their current stuff.

I never said I didn't like the appearance of my current stuff. DM saw people making fun of the boots and took it on himself to change the situation. Take your words out of my mouth this instant.

[Root]

Okay.

I was told that players never get the appearance of gear changed for them.

Honestly? You're coming across as a spoilt, arrogant jackass, man. A thread crops up because tensions are high about you getting superior treatment, and you proceed to talk down to people and further ego yourself up whilst outright mocking the premises by treating it as a non-issue?

Not cool.

If you're just dicking around for laughs, there are better times and better places. Were I TPK, I'd be pretty damn insulted by amount of laughing off he's getting for trying to voice an issue.

Sorry to put a downer on the whole mood here, but if there's a problem in any part of life, laughing at it and dicking about around it dosen't solve it. Treating it with a bit of hard honesty does. Plenty of time for laughing and shiz when we're playing the game.

Not intending this as a personal attack, clich้d as that is. Tone is 'Dude, you're being an arse, stop that.', not 'Hey, you, you're an arsehole, you are.'

[Catastrophe]

Okay.

I was told that players never get the appearance of gear changed for them.

And this is true, when it comes to players asking for having things changed for them.

But if a DM wants to, they can give a player a different looking item. You're also forgetting that r3 has won rpotm, and is thus qualified to have a customization anyways.

[roguethree]

Nestled between all of the . . .

he is an exceptional role player. His command of the English language and thoughtful insight into Sundren lore make his dialog some of the best on this server – hands down.

and the . . .

he is an exceptional role player. His command of the English language and thoughtful insight into Sundren lore make his dialog some of the best on this server – hands down.

and the . . .

he is an exceptional role player. His command of the English language and thoughtful insight into Sundren lore make his dialog some of the best on this server – hands down.

there's a . . .

Dain would be [something different] without me. I [was a huge part of] what he is today.

. . . and a lot of useful insight as to just how favoritism happens and how some people miss their opportunity to take center stage.

A thread crops up because tensions are high about you getting superior treatment,

1. I am not posting this because I feel left out, want more DM interaction, or want to be the center of a clique. I am posting this because of the many times I have experienced favoritism and the many times players have complained, become frustrated, and then left.

2. I am using roguethree in this post because this is the most recent in my memory of possible or perceived favoritism and is not a direct attack against him or any others that are associated with him.

3. I have way too many things in real life to put the great amount of time some of these players and DMs, especially roguethree, put into the server and I applaud their efforts.

Look, I'd love to make this thread all about me and how . . .

he is an exceptional role player. His command of the English language and thoughtful insight into Sundren lore make his dialog some of the best on this server – hands down.

. . . but let's try to stay focused.

[Vaelek]

I AM SO SEXY /thread

May this be a lesson to us all to never compliment R3 again.






And to make Kelemvorites!

[Twisted-Indoctrine]

I think the only real danger being flirted with here is not that one person's role is being too much of a centerpiece, but rather that others are being too easily eclipsed by it.

I don't have a whole lot to say on this topic, as it's a minefield that frankly I'd rather avoid than bulldoze through, but while it may outrage some that concern is brought up and others may be annoyed it's not being addressed in X way at Y time people need to remember people making complaints are "just human" (because I hate that phrase so much) too.

[blurry89]

Honestly? You're coming across as a spoilt, arrogant jackass, man. A thread crops up because tensions are high about you getting superior treatment, and you proceed to talk down to people and further ego yourself up whilst outright mocking the premises by treating it as a non-issue?

Honestly? What do you expect?

I was going to refrain from posting after my earlier post, because it's hard for me to type with kiddie gloves on.

Let's try this. I make a new thread, I call it ... A Sundren Discussion.

I open up by stating that, 'None of this is personal'. My points are: Root, your PC is a dragon disciple. So not fair.

And then, as my reasoning, I use the words: 1) You whine too much on the forums, and 2) The DM team felt sorry for you and 3) Therefore, you got the PrC. 4) So why can't I?

Oh, but I end the post with: No offense, seriously, this is for the betterment of the server, I meant nothing by it.

I bet that would make you feel terrible, and the above is not even true. You're a superb roleplayer and that shouldn't be taken from you. The same applies to r3, and anyone else for that matter (except for me, duh). I'd feel terrible. I bet r3 feels something along those lines (or not).

What the OP has essentially said is,

"R3, I know you've roleplayed a single character for 2 years. Two straight years, with no serious alts, and consistantly, too. Not like that blurry89 guy who only RPs for 3 months at a time before disappearing. Two years and counting.

R3, I know you were the only paladin when there were 6+ active vampires around, and you kept getting roflstomped for 6 months while you had to roleplay humiliation and degredation. For 6 months.

R3, I know you weren't given the Wrath mantle, which made you super popular, but that two others were given it before you but they ended up quitting the server.

R3, I know you were railroaded with the whole Kelemvor issue, and had to roleplay utter failure and letting Myrkul come back to life, even though it was already set in stone and you had 0% chance of success.

R3, Remember that 3 month stretch where the most people online at any give time was three people? And you were one of those three people, everday? When everyone left (like that shady blurry89 guy), you stayed, and were committed to your Dain Tornbrook RP.

Now R3, I know you've put lots of effort and dedication and even wrote a pretty ballin' RP storypiece, but seriously...

you didn't earn it. It was given to you. Because of favortism. Shame on you. Shameshameshameshame."

R3 earned what he has with Dain Tornbrook through roleplay and time. Two years in the making, and continuing. R3 has the coolest stuff, and the coolest storyline, and the second coolest RP, but he also has the most time played on his little character sheet (with the exception of maybe Cirion and Yashia trolol).

tl;dr:

You don't say, 'this is nothing personal' and then state personal names, and pass it off as 'non personal issue betterment server greater good enlightenment'

Time + RP = Cool Stuff.

[Catastrophe]

Watch the tone, everyone. I know there are those with heated opinions and have hurt feelings about things, but I want everyone to cool it, k? Otherwise Cat is going to have to go for the squirt bottle.

[Satoshi]

I just wanted to point out to that: whether or not you personally like roguethree or not, or the character of Dain Tornbrook, or the way the server's main storyline was handled for a long period of time... he and blurry just pretty much pointed out the how and why it all went down. You're just going to have to swallow the fact that there are people who dedicate more time and effort than you reasonably can (or are willing to), and they should be rewarded for it. If all of that still rubs you the wrong way, if you feel entitled to something more that you feel you aren't getting or earning, I really don't know what to tell you. blurry may have put you on the spot, Root, but he really makes his case in a way that I hope you don't dismiss or ignore.

[Silas North]

Snow Hawk----> Hano----> Kathryn----> Cirion----> Peridan----> Dain----> To Be Announced

Your concerns are understandable Pagan. However, I do not believe there is anything that CAN be done. Much of what occurs is human nature. Many of the DM's (past and present) are storytellers at heart, and want to be the best damn storyteller they can be. Inspiration is fickle and when it hits, it hits. A certain player in a certain position at a certain time will inspire a DM. Often a certain player finds himself in said certain position often and the DMs write off of them left and right because they cannot help but be inspired. Circumstance has perhaps more influence in this matter than actual player talent (though talent is really a matter of prespective).

It might be true that DMs should exercise at least some inkling of 'fairness' when it comes to distribution of their services. And it's definitely a solid case to argue that the next "Hano", "Clive", or "Dain" could be found in a place they didn't think to look before. However, history has proven that an attempt to make everyone 'equal' is less likely to result in a bunch of happy individuals and more likely to result in a bunch of people with 'equal misery'. So adding equality-rules to the DMs would likely just cause headaches.

That being said....

While we may disagree in which sources emanate favoritism Pagan, I could NOT agree with you more that it is disgusting. In the end however, we cannot force or control inspirational thought for players or DMs, nor would we want to. The position of DM is not an occupation, and they need to be as free as the players, even when they act in a way we disapprove. I feel for you Pagan, but this is one of those situations where a cure would likely be worse than the disease.