Should Ichbin Perma Die!?

[GodBeastX]

Naw, this shit ain't closed til I slap more people.

Mindless killing to prove my eeping is bigger = WoW
Ganking lowbies who log in and telling them it's dangerous outside their territory = WoW

So why are you on Sundren? Go play WoW, it's designed for you. I still gank fools on it. I still stunlock people on my rogue, it's fun, but it's not welcome here.

But if that same level 9 kills another level 9 withou provocation then the one who died needs to be get better at combat, or spend time in a group. Period.

Yeah, I know you think you sound hard ass with that, but it's these thoughts that is why we have the rules in the first place. Because some of you view PVP OOC'ly. That whole statement is OOC, nothing in there is IC, not one part.

I know you all think you got things right, but you don't. Everytime someone dies in PVP it notifies the DM's on the server. Every time. Tells us who killed who. Etc. This happens alot. How many people do you see complaining on the forum? Very few? That's because only the people getting griefed are complaining. I don't see any posts from a Level 9 saying he got killed by a Level 9 and wants that other level 9 banned. Do you?

I see posts with people flagging others hostile over and over to show how much they hate them OOC. What the hell is that?

I see posts of people killing people who have 0 xp and writing it off with "I'm crazy". Oh yeah, you gotta be crazy to break my rules because it'll wind up bad for you. So I agree there.

I see complaints that someone wouldn't move out the way in the middle of a soldier filled fort so someone lost their head and killed them. Try this once, take a man, go into a police station, knock on the window. When the officer behind the glass looks up, shoot the man in the head. Okay, then write me a letter from prison or hell, wherever they send you.

Now you can tell me what part of that bullshit I need to allow on the server so the server is "Manly" enough for you? That's what I thought.

I bet if we harshened death penalty to be permadeath every time, you all wouldn't even be out killing people. So I'm wondering if the penalties are hurting the victims, or empowering the attackers?

[Kaither]

Locking this thread to prevent any more idiocy

[RynebowBright]

It's a password protected server with a screening process. I can promise you that if someone continually runs around and slaughters newb's when they are level nine they won't be around long. But if that same level 9 kills another level 9 withou provocation then the one who died needs to be get better at combat, or spend time in a group. Period.

But that is just what he does: Kills anyone he thinks he can that won't kill him. Just ask the newbs that recently got slaughtered after five minutes in game.

[CrimsonTears]

Where did you pull it from that lifespan is short? It's been written and said all over FR and other settings: it's fantasy, not dark ages medieval.

But even completely ignoring that obvious tidbit, what is people's fixation with killing? People didn't go around killing each other "because they were evil" in the dark ages. They didn't go attacking others because they refused to bow or to step aside for your "level highness". People knew when you try to kill someone you're risking dying yourself or going to jail for a long time, which isn't worth it for most. If anything, that's what's lacking: real punishment for that kind of stuff. People want to go around killing "because they can"? I'll be fine with it when I can get you arrested and locked in a 3'x3' room for one real life month (and that's being nice for a murder).

I think people watch way too many movies, really. Maybe I should complain I don't have a Holy Granade.

[Ichbin]

What is it with people's fixation on Talking?
What is it with people's fixation on Crafting?
What is it with people's fixation on Exploring?
What is it with people's fixation on Leveling?

It's a roleplaying game taking place in an alternative medieval world. This is not a technologically advanced society that uses reason and science to evolve, but instead an uneducated short lifespan setting. The game mechanics are geared towards combat (as that is the only way to earn experience) unless the creators of the game wish otherwise.

Currently there are two ways to gain experience and thus advance in-game: Killing or DM Rewards. Currently since there are 3-4 DMs and 38 people logged in, most people do not get DM love and need to do the killing. If you were purely interested in roleplaying with spoken text you would be playing a MUD.

The better question you should ask yourself is: What is with people's fixation on killing during the times others aren't interested in it. Everyone wants to kill every once in a while, but no one wants to lose. The problem that there is always a winner and a loser. When you RP everyone can come out feeling like a winner.

It's all part of the dumbing down of our society where everyone wants to win, and has self-esteem problems if they don't. Instead of practicing (leveling), or adapting they complain about it and feel they have some divine right to win. In the large scheme of things what is getting killed one time randomly going to do to you (other than cost you 5 minutes)? The answer is nothing!

It's a password protected server with a screening process. I can promise you that if someone continually runs around and slaughters newb's when they are level nine they won't be around long. But if that same level 9 kills another level 9 withou provocation then the one who died needs to be get better at combat, or spend time in a group. Period.

Obviously the ones who run this place don't feel that way, so they protect those with a sense of entitlement. It's a shame, because as mentioned above one person with sour grapes can ruin the experience for everyone but negative publicity. Personally I think there are more than enough mature players who will come to the server and play it without all the OOC rules and regulations that everyone tries to enforce.

0.0 oh...my...flippin'....god. Thats what I've been trying to say the whole time. Only I've been too flustered to just say that, lol. Thank you Paerin, thank you.

[Paerin]

What is it with people's fixation on Talking?
What is it with people's fixation on Crafting?
What is it with people's fixation on Exploring?
What is it with people's fixation on Leveling?

It's a roleplaying game taking place in an alternative medieval world. This is not a technologically advanced society that uses reason and science to evolve, but instead an uneducated short lifespan setting. The game mechanics are geared towards combat (as that is the only way to earn experience) unless the creators of the game wish otherwise.

Currently there are two ways to gain experience and thus advance in-game: Killing or DM Rewards. Currently since there are 3-4 DMs and 38 people logged in, most people do not get DM love and need to do the killing. If you were purely interested in roleplaying with spoken text you would be playing a MUD.

The better question you should ask yourself is: What is with people's fixation on killing during the times others aren't interested in it. Everyone wants to kill every once in a while, but no one wants to lose. The problem that there is always a winner and a loser. When you RP everyone can come out feeling like a winner.

It's all part of the dumbing down of our society where everyone wants to win, and has self-esteem problems if they don't. Instead of practicing (leveling), or adapting they complain about it and feel they have some divine right to win. In the large scheme of things what is getting killed one time randomly going to do to you (other than cost you 5 minutes)? The answer is nothing!

It's a password protected server with a screening process. I can promise you that if someone continually runs around and slaughters newb's when they are level nine they won't be around long. But if that same level 9 kills another level 9 withou provocation then the one who died needs to be get better at combat, or spend time in a group. Period.

Obviously the ones who run this place don't feel that way, so they protect those with a sense of entitlement. It's a shame, because as mentioned above one person with sour grapes can ruin the experience for everyone but negative publicity. Personally I think there are more than enough mature players who will come to the server and play it without all the OOC rules and regulations that everyone tries to enforce.

[Ichbin]

I agree with that happening claron but what i have heard about ichbin is that he cast a spell on you and when hes about to die he starts saying it was an ooc accident.

It was that ONE TIME yo%^$#@$^&^^$#@#!@$%@$$%%^@!!.....

...seriously, christ. Ask the friggin DM that was there, it was the only accident I ever made. If it wasnt an accident I wouldn't have done it in the middle of being attacked by gnolls!

[RynebowBright]

What is it with people's fixation with killing?

It makes them feel powerful, strokes their ego, and gets them attention?

Just my thoughts.

[CrimsonTears]

What is it with people's fixation with killing?

[Paerin]

You lose absolutely nothing from a PVP death, so I cannot for the life of me understand why it's such a big deal. If someone kills you without provocation then make some friends and kill them back. If your not interested in revenge then stay in town, it's a dangerous world out there.

What happens if I am an evil Ranger and your in m forest. Then I send you a tell and say "I'm going to attack you ok?". And you send back "No, I don't like PVP". as you continue to forage in my forest. By the rules of the server am I permitted to attack you anyway? If so, how is this different than simply attacking in the first place? In both situations the person has no desire to participate.

Furthermore, who is to say that I can't bring you to unconsciousness and go into a monologue. Then revive you with a threat to never return. I would be playing my part of an evil possessive ranger, and your on my land. You don't like it? Get a bigger group that I can't overpower and hunt me down, or avoid my claimed area.

If you die one time to learn your lesson thats life. Next time you know.

The only way I personally see thes PVP rules being valid is if I camp a transition point and continually grief the person. I've executed my personal decision to not play here for a while, because all the whining drives me nuts. No matter what you do, it offends someone else. Too bad I say, there are 100's of other players out there to take my spot when I quit. Stop trying to make everyone happy and, and stop trying to make the server suit you. If your playstyle doesn't mesh with the rules in place, play someplace else.

[Anks]

big discussion going on here :P

Personally, I don't like the "I am teh evilz I must smack everyone" roles, but i Love the scheming, plotting ones. Playing Claron, I wouldn't OOCly mind being stabbed in the neck by an assassin without warning, Claron's a knightly good guy, and it'd be weird if someone with evil alignment would just go "mah, let im".
And which assassin in their right mind would go "Hey, you die!" before stabbing someone.
As I also explained to GM Jun (this may have been a bad idea ^_^) I don't mind if bad things happen to my character, both good and bad things build character.
..Unless they plan to saw off my arm or something, then, kindly ask permission OOC first ^_^

I agree with that happening claron but what i have heard about ichbin is that he cast a spell on you and when hes about to die he starts saying it was an ooc accident.

[Eldran_Haart]

big discussion going on here :P

Personally, I don't like the "I am teh evilz I must smack everyone" roles, but i Love the scheming, plotting ones. Playing Claron, I wouldn't OOCly mind being stabbed in the neck by an assassin without warning, Claron's a knightly good guy, and it'd be weird if someone with evil alignment would just go "mah, let im".
And which assassin in their right mind would go "Hey, you die!" before stabbing someone.
As I also explained to GM Jun (this may have been a bad idea ^_^) I don't mind if bad things happen to my character, both good and bad things build character.
..Unless they plan to saw off my arm or something, then, kindly ask permission OOC first ^_^

[Ethereal Edge]

To clear this up, how many people in real life run around killing for the sake of killing? No one, everyone has motive and justification, even the insane, which is hardly an excuse in roleplay. It's not our fault that your experience with evil has been largely based off of anime and poorly written movies.

[CrimsonTears]

Chaotic Evil alone is not a reason to randomly kill someone, However, Neutral evil is, Neutral evils do evil for the sake of doing evil. Killing someone without reason is evil, so a neutral evil needs no reason to kill someone. LG is not the "goodest" alignment, CE is not the "evillest" alignment. Not going to get into the alignment thing here but there is obnviously a misunderstanding somewhere on this thread, where people think that CE = ultimately evil, when it is really "Chaotic and Evil" opposed to NE = "Evil with no room for honor or chaos".

Your assesment of neutral evil is funny If people just read what an alignment is instead of trying to insert personal input, understanding alignments would be so much easier Neutral evil has nothing to do with "doing evil for evil's sake". A neutral evil person could fit into doing that, as much as a lawful evil (who would simply do it while considering order and possibly thinking good is what brings chaos to the world) or chaotic evil (who would do it just because they like it and think evil is the only way to be the fittest to survive).

Neutral evil is simply a disregard for both order and chaos, the ultimate care being him/herself, his/her own well being, quality of life and goals, without care about what it takes to get all that. The goals can be go Dr. Evil and rule the world with the giant laser and the fallic spaceship, be evil "cuz eev1l pwnz!!1! I rlzzz wehn i kilz juu!" or simply live a quiet life in the city. The baker who never gives a spare piece of bread to the hungry and keeps his prices up even when there is povetry around, knowing his bakery is the only one in town so people have to pay his price, easily might be neutral evil, just like the assassin who kills for money out of greed and no care for the lives of others.

Anyways On topic, the main thing is simply one: the fun of the majority. Evil in essence is a kind of fun that focus on one's own at the expense of others. Player vs player struggle can be fun at times. But it has to be something that makes sense and consequences must be considered. If some good character starts going zealot on evil ones, hunting them and attacking them out of revenge, to kill instead of bringing them to some kind of justice, like Maia for exemple, they might start turning evil themselves and get liable for being ganged on by people who disagree with "judge-jury-executor" attitudes It's easier to happen with evil people? Well, of course, they are the ones who usually constantly do something that has bad consequences, no? It's just natural.

[Garfaldo]

Bah, killing is killing, period. It should be dealt with the same way in character. Though...

"and you think the righteous paladin that hacks his way deep into the necromancer's lair only to fall at the end... rightfully deserves another go at life? Same crap, different toilet"

If this was a PVP situation, would that seem fair? If there was an evil necromancer killing people so he could raise them as skeletons, weither they be npcs or not, and a paladin were to kill the necromancer... Would anyone say "that paladin isn't nice, that paladin should be permakilled, he's an ass" If he didn't ask permission from the evil necromancer to kill him?

You're missing my point, and judging from your argument I think we actually agree with each other. I was saying that I didn't understand why evil characters at the mercy of good deserve a perma death, but good characters at the mercy of evil don't.