Should Ichbin Perma Die!?

[Fobic]

Isnt the more important part of this about if rules should apply to all of us, just a few or non of us.
As I see it, rules apply to all or non. The rules say "-ALL- PVP must have a reason. And to expand upon this, all PVP must have a warning IC or OOC."

I could not care less if Ichbin perma dies or not. I think they penalty should be either towards the player or the player and the character.
If a player does not abide by the rules ban him for a few week, then a few months and then perma ban.

My point being, it's not the character that break OOC rules, it's the player.

[skyde]

You're a dwarf, bandits are all human, Maybe he wanted dwarven bodyparts? Sick, twisted individual but hey, if everyone was perfect, what kind of sick world would this be?

I understand he was actually collecting human bodyparts. I wasn't even dead yet. So that part of your argument doesn't hold true.

And frankly I disagree with your assessment of the motivation for this post. I tend to think that this post (however valid discussion it has started) is simply an attempt at attention whoring (rather succesful at that).

Losing the precious time is not really an issue in my particular case, as I actually did not loose any time (I recovered from bleeding and some adventurers happened to give some nice first aid). For me it was the zero roleplay, munchkin attack that I had zero chance to survive. Added to this was the potential idiocy to push new players from the server. I don't see how this adds to the "general enjoyment" of the server.

[Raksha]

Personally I would like to see something happen to band the evils together so that they may plot, create an evil organization, and not feel they have to kill lowbie goodies to show that "hey, I'm evil!"

Pssst! Come to the Enclave!

We have cookies!

[Sathayorn]

I personally got zero warning beforehand. All I saw was talking to you and boom... I am dying and groaning. And the roleplaying excuse "I am collecting bodyparts" he mentioned later in shoutbox is well...idiotic. He could as easily collect those bodyparts from bandits and whatnot if he needs to fulfill his sexual fantasies...

You're a dwarf, bandits are all human, Maybe he wanted dwarven bodyparts? Sick, twisted individual but hey, if everyone was perfect, what kind of sick world would this be?

Though, the fact the person who started this topic is asking if people think he should be permakilled... This goes to show maturity on his part, less than would be expected of someone his age, but atleast some. Weither he gets permakilled or not, I really don't care, though, people have to start thinking about how big of a deal they're making over nothing.

Yes, jumping out of nowhere, without any sort of warning, and killing someone whom you don't know is willing to lose 5 minutes of their "precious time" is bad, I agree. Saying "I'm going to kill you" Really makes me feel kinda unwelcome though... Sounds like a threat to me, where killing me in game, funny. Would "You may very well perish soon" be an acceptable tell to send someone?

Chaotic Evil alone is not a reason to randomly kill someone, However, Neutral evil is, Neutral evils do evil for the sake of doing evil. Killing someone without reason is evil, so a neutral evil needs no reason to kill someone. LG is not the "goodest" alignment, CE is not the "evillest" alignment. Not going to get into the alignment thing here but there is obnviously a misunderstanding somewhere on this thread, where people think that CE = ultimately evil, when it is really "Chaotic and Evil" opposed to NE = "Evil with no room for honor or chaos".

Should murderrers be permakilled? Eventually, let them have a killing streak, let the evils have a little fun, atleast let them get caught in character though. Lasting evils should be a little more... Careful. The problem with this however is the lack of henchmen a player can have without a DM babysitting them. If every evil schemes all the time, nothing gets done because no one wants to lose their character, when the goodies likely will never have a chance of such, causing the evils to fall way behind in levels, be outnumberred 5 to 1 by the goodies, and have armies of good soldiers on the heroes side.

Personally I would like to see something happen to band the evils together so that they may plot, create an evil organization, and not feel they have to kill lowbie goodies to show that "hey, I'm evil!"

I just get reminded of that southpark episode every time I hear of a PVP complaint, you know the one "Make love, not Warcraft".

[Sathayorn]

Well according to the rules. It should be the other way around. You should add something like "I can be attacked without permission." Or... with a little tongue in cheek "Please kill me."

Quote from the rules:
"I want people to know they have a possibility of being attacked -before- they are attacked. If you attack someone THEN rp or warn, you broke the rules, clear and simple."

You misunderstand, Killing someone because they spit in your face, insulted you, and you generally hate their race abides by that rule there.

It's the people who don't want to be killed even after proper roleplay is done that need to have something in their description, now, my next question is... Turning on hostility during a convo, does this count as a warning, if done atleast 10 seconds before combat?

[skyde]

Just a thought, People seem to be taking this entire thing too seriously, in the end of the day, no one was harmed, nobodies mind was destroyed... These are not memories that are repressed to retain sanity. Working your concerns about PVP with the people who kill you is probably the best option I could think of. If you really don't want someone to kill you in PVP, make a note of it in your characters description box "Please ask my permission before engaging in PVP" or something along the lines of "Ask before you kill me" and so on.

Well according to the rules. It should be the other way around. You should add something like "I can be attacked without permission." Or... with a little tongue in cheek "Please kill me."

Quote from the rules:
"I want people to know they have a possibility of being attacked -before- they are attacked. If you attack someone THEN rp or warn, you broke the rules, clear and simple."

[skyde]

I was the victim for that. If it's when I think, I didn't mind. I got warning beforehand. What's the deal?

I personally got zero warning beforehand. All I saw was talking to you and boom... I am dying and groaning. And the roleplaying excuse "I am collecting bodyparts" he mentioned later in shoutbox is well...idiotic. He could as easily collect those bodyparts from bandits and whatnot if he needs to fulfill his sexual fantasies...

This is what I saw (picture taken later):

[Sathayorn]

Bah, killing is killing, period. It should be dealt with the same way in character. Though...

"and you think the righteous paladin that hacks his way deep into the necromancer's lair only to fall at the end... rightfully deserves another go at life? Same crap, different toilet"

If this was a PVP situation, would that seem fair? If there was an evil necromancer killing people so he could raise them as skeletons, weither they be npcs or not, and a paladin were to kill the necromancer... Would anyone say "that paladin isn't nice, that paladin should be permakilled, he's an ass" If he didn't ask permission from the evil necromancer to kill him?

This is a serious roleplaying server right? That being said, just because it is a serious roleplaying server does not mean people have to take it so seriously. PVP complaints are for MMOPGG's (Massive Multiplayer Online Power Gamer Games) Like World of Warcraft or Everquest. I find it rather refreshing to be killed because I pissed someone off, instead of "because I spawned them". It does not ruin fun, really, if there is an actual reason, but everyone seems to hate "evil". What about Genocide? Hmm? Is that not evil? Saying "No, theyre goblins, they are diseased and all must die"... This is not a good deed.

PVP causes people to work together, because, honestly, its not as likely you will be killed when in a group of people roleplaying rather than when you are killing goblins alone. PVP also helps groups of people drift apart, conflicts are really required so that not every single person on the server is working together all of the time. One of the greatest things about one of the servers I played on back in NWN was the fact one of the players had a grudge against me, even though his hatred for me was kinda OOC, he always had an in character reason, and then it caused people to get involved. Lawful Evil against Chaotic Good, Knight against Warriormage, and that was just one of the many people over the years I had conflicts with that lasted months, Why? Because the two of us were mature enough to enjoy it. It wasnt just a "I see him, *draws blade and attacks*" There was plotting involved, on both sides.

Though, I am strongly opposed to killing someone without a good in character reason, unless they are mature enough to handle being killed. One instance per player killed should be overlooked, and the player, if it ruined his or her fun, should inform the murderrer in a tell that they did not enjoy that. Problem, in most cases afterwards, is solved. Assuming someone is mature enough to deal with *gasps* five minutes out of their day lost does seem to be excessive with online games however.

Just a thought, People seem to be taking this entire thing too seriously, in the end of the day, no one was harmed, nobodies mind was destroyed... These are not memories that are repressed to retain sanity. Working your concerns about PVP with the people who kill you is probably the best option I could think of. If you really don't want someone to kill you in PVP, make a note of it in your characters description box "Please ask my permission before engaging in PVP" or something along the lines of "Ask before you kill me" and so on.

So, as I've been told, you have to really have an immediate occurence happen to kill someone without telling them first(They insult you, spit in your face, and you really never liked their race to begin with), but the question is, if you tell someone that you're going to kill them, and they don't want to die, should you have to break roleplay to save feelings?

[CrimsonTears]

I'm not taking either side here, but I just find the logic a little odd when you think that just because someone is flamingly evil they deserve a perma-death when dead...

....and you think the righteous paladin that hacks his way deep into the necromancer's lair only to fall at the end... rightfully deserves another go at life? Same crap, different toilet.

Nope. Not at all. One deals with attacking NPCs, which won't have their fun messed with if they are killed. The other involves PCs whose fun is the goal of the server Do evil people have a right for fun? Sure, as long as it doesn't messes with what the majority considers "fun".

[Sathayorn]

Hello, my name is Deth'amaendul, I have been hired to kill you, is this acceptable?

[Tratz]

Take away the ability to gauge how strong another character is, then lift the PvP consent rule. This will dull and deter the exploitation of obviously weaker characters.

I agree. Whatever the motivation might be to commit an evil act, if a character doesn't know, then the player doesn't need to know about it either. With a password and player screening process in place, it stands to question why we need these rules in the first place. We have all gone through the better judgement of our peers and superiors, have we not?

I also agree, giving no IC warning for an attack isn't poor roleplaying. Honestly. If you were an assassin, bounty hunter or hired killer, would you offer fair warning ahead of time or be stupid enough to make yourself known? I'd think not.

Without being able to gauge how strong a target is, eventually the dull "maniac psycho" character will get what's coming to him/her, and it' won't matter. I would also consider any death dealt in RP to be permanent, unless remedied by outside powers. That sums up my vote.

[Garfaldo]

I'm not taking either side here, but I just find the logic a little odd when you think that just because someone is flamingly evil they deserve a perma-death when dead...

....and you think the righteous paladin that hacks his way deep into the necromancer's lair only to fall at the end... rightfully deserves another go at life? Same crap, different toilet. Why should the heros of good be able to live on when they are a corpse at the mercy of evil, and not the murderer who finally gets his dues from the town guard?

If anything.. I think Anaya (lol remember her) set the tone for this when she got off scot free in trial for her rampage of thieving, and murdering.

[Vichtor]

"Hello there."

"THEMZ SOUN LIEK FIGHTIN WORDS"

" . . . "

"Hello there."

Translated into Stupid: "Yur mom!"

[Kaldaris]

"Hello there."

"THEMZ SOUN LIEK FIGHTIN WORDS"

" . . . "

[Diverdan]

Meh, in my opinion even if theres the slightest bit of RP with a PK (not a lvl 20 vs a newb* lvl 3) i find it okay. Like out of no where a dark figure leaps out and stabs you then they go *checks your face to see if you are correct mark* Or *searches body and steals you of coin bag* or even *kicks dead body to make sure he is dead*. There is RP there and they are not just metakilling.
The worst ever Metakiller i have seen on a server was on the last server i played on, he was uber tweaked and a pure powerbuild. He would hunt characters down as soon as he saw them as red (there were several factions on this server) and kill you, no RP whatsoever, he would ignore everything until you were dead. One time after he killed me he sent me annoying Tells like :
"that will teach you"
"That will teach me what?"
" I dunno. . for looking funny"
Yeah, Grade A RPer there.


** I used the term Newb. Not Noob. therefore meaning a new player who doesnt know what they are doing properly but are willing to seek advice and help.