Caster vs Melee

[Root]

Only a few Gods ask for morning prayers, though. It makes no sense for a Sharran to pray in the morning, for instance, unless they were giving thanks for the night.

[Cornuto]

Imagine the entire server with level 3 toons. Ten to twenty (or more) newb toons running around the hills hunting goblins would be pretty chaotic. Funny as hell. But chaotic.

Sounds pretty fun to me, no problem finding people in your level range to party with... plus there's three lower level dungeons (Road crypts, Sewers, Goblins)

[Machiavelli]

Well said Senor Cornuto, a server populated with low level PCs would be a lot of fun. =D

[Maevan2]

Sounds pretty fun to me, no problem finding people in your level range to party with... plus there's three lower level dungeons (Road crypts, Sewers, Goblins)

Did anybody ever go to the sewers unless he had the quest?

[Anrilor]

No wipe, please no wipe, those things are never good for server population, I saw a server that had a population close to ours, and after wipe.... was about half of what it was.

As far as lowering the cap again, well suddenly PrCs are not as appealing, you can't fully use them, making a lot of people not take them as some of them you cannot fill out (mostly the caster ones as you end up having to take them at level 8). a sudden huge drop off of People using PrCs would be interesting, as more regular multi-classing and single class builds would come into existence. other PrCs would become used and abused though (why be an assassin that doesn't get his HiPS til 15, when you can be a Shadow dancer that gets it at 10) mostly the ones that give what they have to offer at the lower levels.

More importantly as this is an RP server, people shouldn't be focused on a pvp build then RP that build. How it should work IMO is that you get a character Idea, and build around the character. PvP builds have a tenancy to not be as effective in RP because when they are made they don't have a character Idea behind them, its just the thought of "oh well this + this would be awesome against this" and then as they get to the level 5 cap they try to figure out what that character is like for RP while they wait for the cap to go up.

Now as more magic items go for those non-casters, I don't see that as much as a problem as I see for lowering the cap or wipe. more magical items that make fighters closer to casters I actually like. Belts that give stone skin, a helmet with the effects of death ward, cloaks of immunity damage, etc. would be interesting to see if you could find a way to keep all those casters out of the store, then make sure those non-casters don't sell it to their caster friends.

[Root]

The point is, a Death Ward Helmet to a caster would be pretty naff. You'd just use it to save yourself a spellslot, and even then it would be more easily dispelled and shorter duration than your own version.

But to a Fighter, a helmet casting Death Ward would be a godsend.

[roguethree]

Again, you don't solve the problem by shoring up their weaknesses. You address it by improving their strengths. The question isn't, "How do we make a warrior/rogue more durable?" The question is, "How do we make a warrior/rogue a preferred option in a party?"

Rogues are addressed by areas with devious traps that require a rogue to both scout and deactivate, special items that can only be acquired by pick pocketing npc's and monsters, locked doors that lead to special areas, and locked chests. Fighters are addressed by giving them abilities and equipment that bring their combat abilities beyond those of their spell-casting peers, when warded appropriately. A fighter should never be impervious to an Archmage or Highpriest of Uber Death God. The fighter should be able to cut the mo-fo in half if he gets a clear shot.

More ideas for feats, borrowing some concepts from other games:

Leap Strike
Req: Barbarian 12, Knockdown, Improved Knockdown, Jump 15

Barbarian leaps to a location (dimension door) within range, and immediately attempts a Knockdown if an enemy was targeted. Cooldown: 30 sec.

Shield Bash
Req: 18 STR, AB +X

PC attempts a touch attack. If successful, target must succeed at a Fortitude Save, DC: Character Level + STR Mod or be dazed for 1 (2, 3?) round. Cooldown: 30 sec.

Hunker Down
Req: 13 Int, Combat Expertise, Imp. Combat Expertise, Tower Shield Proficiency

When using a Tower Shield, a character may activate this feat to take a -10 penalty to hit, but the PC gains 90% miss chance against ranged weapons.

Throw Dirt
Req: 13 Int, Rogue 6

PC makes a touch attack. If successful, the target is blind for 1 round + 1 round/5 rogue levels. DC: 5 + Rogue Level, Reflex Negates. Cooldown: 1 minute.

[Dragor]

Username and I think that population is a factor on why meleers have so much trouble as well. Considering Sundren doesnt appear on the server list anymore I doubt it will resolve itself.

Since I have been playing the most people online I have seen has been about 30, you subtract about 12 as AFKers and about another 6-8 as those who wont leave the fire and your left with about 10 chars actually out doing anything, enough to form three effective parties if the stars align and the chars classes compliment and can RP find and get along with each other and are around the same level

If there is a straight melee build and a straight caster build that can find each other and party up they can handle area's neither of them can solo, but because it is so hard to find and party up with people most of the time if you want to advance your char in lvl (which is the only thing to do at night if you want to play on Sundren) you need a build that can survive solo

Thats our current theory on why there are so many Gish and Cleric builds anyway

I also don't know why PvP is even brought up 1/2 the time PvP is a mob chasing a PC Vamp and the other 1/2 non-lethal duels (most of which are OOC to test stuff)

Personally the only thing I think should be added in equipment wise (that cant already be crafted with a completed/new crafting system) would be a way for the melee builds with low will saves to protect their minds since there seems to be a bit of an overemphasis on having a good will save for the higher up area's

[Tamha]

So reading over this all, I have come to a conclusion about all this: the main issue players are having results primarily from playing solo. Xalbrus and I haven't had this problem as we are married, and therefore play our characters together for leveling purposes. While as a FS, Darcy could have been built to manage solo play, I built her to be a Combat Medic, making her power shine the most when she's healing her companions. Noril does the ridiculous DPS while Darcy places her armored self in the way much as she can, and then keeps them healed. If we pick up, say, Xaayne, she buffs him up and is still primarily there for keeping everyone alive. The biggest thing I would like would be if I could cast Stone Body on my companions instead of having to cast them on myself. I have lamented many of the spells limited to the caster only, in fact, as they all would be greater benefit to a well-rounded party if they could be put on a different person instead. Another example is a level one arcane spell: True Strike. Imagine how good a Sneak Attack would be if the mage could cast True Strike on the rogue next to her.

In the end it all comes down to static groups, I suppose. I have them, so I can play whatever I feel like without much trouble, but most don't have that option so readily available. I think if we just had a way to more readily help people get into groups for adventuring, there would be no problems at all.

[Vonjan]

I really don't Understand the whole deal but i can safely say i care little about it. I make characters that are made to interact with others..no matter how hard some may seem.
anyway bottom line it really should not matter what class you play, Its your ability to get the job done with your group that matters.

[07paul87]

And that's the problem, fighters and other pure melee'rs are baggage rather than a boon in higher levels.

[Thief Of Navarre]

It does seem odd that you can buff someones weapon to +5 enhancement, give it 1D8 Fire, Keen edge (Or Impact weapon) and a persistant light source but having a +2 weapon is almost out of the question ~ That aside....

- D&D has a wealth of fighter related abilities sundren could benefit from its just that to implement them would be difficult and take much precious time away from making the server more fun for everyone.


Some of the ones I would like to see are;

• Combat Reflexes - Increased AoO up to dex bonus
• 5 Foot step - Give the standerd five feet without sacrificing a round
• Free Actions - Actions that through specialisation require no time to cast
• Cover - Terrain provides a degree of concealment (almost impossible, forget that one)
• Sunder - Attack the opponents tools (would require item hardness and be very hard to code in properly)
• Tripping or Weapon Tripping - Speaks for itself
• Sheild Bash - Bash an enemy with your sheild; I think it was intended for NWN2 but never coded in.
• Reach Weapons - yes, my chain reaches ten foot..

Its a big list...
*edit* Back on what Philosopher said about reducing the level cap again... Its not a bad idea. I felt particularly bad about monday's events where I inadvertently killed the person I was trying to stand up for with an Extended Creeping Doom... thats more power than any character should rightly have.

[MadSeer]

Cover - Terrain provides a degree of concealment (almost impossible, forget that one)

I know a guy that released a hak on the vault that does just that. You can place the trigger behind rocks, crates, etc to get concealment when hiding behind.

[07paul87]

I know a guy that released a hak on the vault that does just that. You can place the trigger behind rocks, crates, etc to get concealment when hiding behind.

I downloaded a module that featured this quite heavily. "The Last of the Danaan." It would take a loooot of time to implement, I'd imagine. Or how resource-intensive it would be.

[roguethree]

Seems like it would be buggy and allow concealment even when being attacked by things not hindered by the cover, like someone behind you.