Sweet! I'm Level 15! NOW I Can Be Evil!

[TheBlankStare]

Of course, it's usually good for a paladin to be friends with a chaotic good thug or two. So that he can turn his back and not look, at a given moment

In my PnP games if I'd ever seen a paladin do that he'd not be playing at my table anymore. Ever. He'd be pelted with dice until a d20 replaced his eye then booted up the basement stairs and out the door. As a last gesture of farewell he'd be made to walk barefoot and blindfolded over a 30 foot section of sidewalk that had been covered with d4s.

[GodBeastX]

Surely busting him in the face is Chaotic and not lawful? I mean if torture is legal in that region then face busting is lawful good for that purpose but if not, it's chaotic points surely?

Of course, it's usually good for a paladin to be friends with a chaotic good thug or two. So that he can turn his back and not look, at a given moment

NOpe, doesn't shift you at all and it's straight out of the FR books It takes alot to shift people, that was my point. Especially chaos/lawful. Devil for instance don't become chaotic when they torture mortals to get them to sign contracts. Bane advocates torture to test loyalty in his armies which is a Lawful/Evil organization, and I hardly consider punching people in the face to be considered torture compared to things other people do

Also, Paladins can do more than one Chaotic act and stay a paladin, but they can't do ANY evil acts.

[GodBeastX]

In my PnP games if I'd ever seen a paladin do that he'd not be playing at my table anymore. Ever. He'd be pelted with dice until a d20 replaced his eye then booted up the basement stairs and out the door. As a last gesture of farewell he'd be made to walk barefoot and blindfolded over a 30 foot section of sidewalk that had been covered with d4s.

I'm glad I don't play at your tables XD Since paladins not being L/G is valid RP, and like I tell everyone, there's such things as attonements <_< And how would one become a fallen paladin turned blackguard if you boot em out of play for falling? heheh

[Azulfae]

You guys (*cough*, *blankstare*) are just lucky there is the internet as a degree of separation between us. If anyone has a hissy fit and throws the toys out of the pram during PnP there is some serious beat downs maybe involving rope and nakedness and an apple.

I hope those D4's are comedy size.

[Silas North]

This is why I don't play pnp lol. The disagreements can sometimes lead to moments of catastrophe, bickering, and the complete wasting of time and money (Basicially, it's like the U.N.).

That being said, I semi-agree with Blank. I would think that not all paladins are the same, but what would concern me about one of them so willingly associating with a thuggish-type is that it looks as though the player is just not willing to play a Paladin with all the drawbacks attatched to them. And if that is the case, they should choose another character.

I completely agree with Captain Caveman's statements. First of all, a 2-4 point alignment shift is NOT going to kill you, so people have to stop taking it personal. If you cannot deal with the alignment points, DON'T commit the act. Chances are, 2-4 points are not going to change your alignment anyway, and if you are thinking to yourself "I should not have to go out of my way in committing lawful acts to make me neutral again" then maybe you should consider the possibility that your character is NOT ACTUALLY neutral. And if it's a matter of disagreement about what is lawful, chaotic, good, or evil, then just take your alignment in stride and play your character without caring what some in-game text describes them as. Though if you get evil points for saving a child from a burning building, something is obviously wrong with someone other than yourself.

[Thief Of Navarre]

Thats a point; can we druids and clerics roleplay the Atonement spell?

We could set little personal discovery quests for fallen paladins e.t.c. to make sure they are worthy of such a potentially potent 5th level spell being used! Would make for some nice roleplaying

[Kaeldorn]

Fun idea, but it's too easy to do friends favors if no DM is involved to judge.

[Azulfae]

Bah! Atonement, that was the most pointless film I have ever seen.

[Thief Of Navarre]

I mean you could make it into an event for the Fallen character (DM assisted)!

Its not like Paladins fall from grace that often anyway..

[Kaeldorn]

If you're involving DMs in it, then it more or less becomes a character request as usual I'd say. It's quite likely that the DM still decides upon the quest as well and you only get to act as an intermediary figure. Though that's nicer than having to roll with it via an NPC.