Sweet! I'm Level 15! NOW I Can Be Evil!

[Fezzik]

Few brutish half-orcs would really live long in a civilized area, just as much as any human acting that way wouldn't last long.... unless they're smart about it.

A lot of evil people give little hints that they lean that way in the beginning, at least from what I've seen, and then continue to try to be "good buddies" to people sometimes as well; it doesn't take long for people to realize it's an act and then not trust them.

I don't see problem with an evil person being considered a hero either; heroic deeds are in judge by the eyes of the populace. If someone comes in and slays a dragon that has been plaguing the land for years, causing the loss of family and loved ones, and then expects all the money in the land, people will still give it up and consider the person somewhat of a hero (maybe not as much as one that says "No, no, use it to rebuild your life!"). Sure, they might be broke, but they can let their kids play outside again!

[TamurtheLame]

I agree that some races are probably played differently than they normally would, but then again, many books have races hating each other but then through battle and trials, they become best friends (Lord of the Rings).

I tend to try and play the races as I have read them to be. My primary character is an elf and he hates a bunch of races and tells people that. He also hates humans because of RP reasons and tells people that. He doesn't really trust anyone but other elves, but he has learned to tolerate some humans and one Orc because of actions and such (trials).

I just throw this out there because a long time ago, I played an elf on Sundren and played him the way I thought elves were supposed to be and I was called a racist and all that BS and basically stopped playing elves. Now, it seems that the player base is a bit more mature and I believe the possiblity of really playing your race the way it is supposed to be played is there.

[Saulus]

Yeah now the DMs would have a dozen commoners come up to someone and be like "Racist?! It's a drow you nut, kill it!".

[Phantom Lamb]

The half-orc treatment isn't unique to Sundren. Most people play them "cutesy," using their stupidity as an endearing trait. Most people who see them react to them like modern-day players, not characters, meaning they strive to show equality and fair treatment. And everyone has excuses for their characters as to why they do treat them this way!

OK, well that's hyperbole. It's not everyone. And I too have a character who will work with hal-orcs (and yes, he has an excuse, but at least it's only one of many!).

I believe it's players, not characters, that drive this. Ultimately, we want to hang around with others and roleplay. When we behave in-character and ex-communicate someone, it's often counter to that goal.

I always try to OOCly applaud folks who do look down at orcs. But if folks want to carebear them, I try not to hold it against them simply because it's so commonplace.

[Kaeldorn]

It's all great to judge people based on what you've seen if you're a good guy, but some prejudice really can't hurt.

I honestly believe that if I decided to start playing a stereotypical half orc today a lot of people would treat me as the odd one out and still be welcoming to other orcs and half orcs. It's weird especially since the grand majority of people is going to slaughter orcs in the Viridale on account of being monsters who plague Sundren at some point. Do they really make any effort at a peaceful approach before storming their fort though? Nope, didn't think so

[Maevan2]

I believe it's players, not characters, that drive this. Ultimately, we want to hang around with others and roleplay. When we behave in-character and ex-communicate someone, it's often counter to that goal.

That is just too true. I try (or rather tried) to play a character that doesn't care about others on goes her own way. But if you are really consequent then it just means that you'll be on your own. You can be an ass and insult people all day but if you want to RP then you'll still have to join them all the time.

And this works the other way round: if everybody would just say "fuck off you bastard" and really mean it then you can be sure that the other player will just create a new character sooner or later unless he can find an evil wizard that uses him for his evil plans.

This would be much less of a problem if we had some half-orc tribe so that half-orcs have a few of their own kind to talk to. But we don't have this so we'll have to be more or less nice to our smelly friends

[Iso]

Orcs aside, I still don't get why my characters who are jerks are better liked than the nice [human] ones :P

What was this thread about again? Oh, right. Well, obviously evil isn't so very frowned upon at low levels as are perceived threats. So, if you dress in happy colors, come up with witty jokes, and in general act like Jerk is your middle name, people don't seem to care too much if you're a homicidal maniac.

But if you look like a monster, smell like a monster, and speak like an aristocrat, then you're not only planning something you're also trying to play them for stupid. As someone mentioned, it's kind of like real life.

As a quick afterthought, where are the Gnoll druids? We see Gnoll guards with the Thayans!

[Vala Rift]

It's weird especially since the grand majority of people is going to slaughter orcs in the Viridale on account of being monsters who plague Sundren at some point. Do they really make any effort at a peaceful approach before storming their fort though? Nope, didn't think so

I shot a few hundred arrows over their fort wall in an attempt at peaceful diplomacy. Each arrow had a bit of chocolate in a pouch tied to it.. Figured they could share it among themselves.

Needless to say, they still came charging at me. Ungrateful brutes!

But right, can we script the Exigo guards to treat them like poo? Or merchants to say things when they are near that would also be considered "racist"? That way, players are forced into the general idea that.. "Yea.. This guy is a big burly Half-Orc with a large axe trottin' through our social area".

[Kaeldorn]

Orcs aside, I still don't get why my characters who are jerks are better liked than the nice [human] ones :P

What was this thread about again? Oh, right. Well, obviously evil isn't so very frowned upon at low levels as are perceived threats. So, if you dress in happy colors, come up with witty jokes, and in general act like Jerk is your middle name, people don't seem to care too much if you're a homicidal maniac.

But if you look like a monster, smell like a monster, and speak like an aristocrat, then you're not only planning something you're also trying to play them for stupid. As someone mentioned, it's kind of like real life.

As a quick afterthought, where are the Gnoll druids? We see Gnoll guards with the Thayans!

That's not necessarily true. I've been playing a real ******* recently and most people respond accordingly. The reason he can keep meeting people is because he goes out of his way to find a situation where he can offend someone. Only the kind that doesn't take life too seriously and is able to laugh with his being a jerk gets along with him. And then only at some distance.

[Kaeldorn]

Oh, and...

[DurinRustbeard]

*Said in Gruff Dwarven accent with his gnarled fists balled in anger at his goodie goodie party members wanting to bring along the simpleton half orc* Ain't Never gonna work along side no Mud blood, tusk faced, Green skined, Motherless, son of a Orcspawn!! *huffs off*

I for one have never as a dwarf, even as my most civilized one, willingly partied with a half orc. I may rarely do business with them, but only out of a desire for business. My more stereotypical dwarves will even refuse to talk to them, often hurling insults at them while others are present. Sometimes its hard, but I just can't do it.. it feels soo.. Un-Natural. I often frown upon other dwarves who sympathise for them.. the rift between orcs and dwarves is such an old hatered that I just don't think it possible to overcome, unless your the cuddliest nicest dwarf ever.. *scoffs*

[Azulfae]

I play the steriotypical half orc brute. Not sure exactly why people are turning on the RP of Half orcs. The thread is "Oh i'm level 15, now i can be evil etc."

Not exactly what I have seen from most half orc players, not on sundren anyway.

15th is my next level and to be honest Juggra began as chaotic evil and was roleplayed as such, not on this server to be truthful but several ears ago on City of arabel. Realistically, many half orcs would naturally start as evil and either die from their ways or become reformed.

This is what you see from my chaotic neutral (trying to be good but never achieving it due to tendancies) half-orc.

With regards to predjudice, it ame that certain races do not recieve more predjudice from certain other racves on this server. There are mild attempts but people always back down and become riends rather easily.

With regards tot he half orcs perhaps it's because they always perform as rather effective tanks for a party and after just one little expedition they have earned a sun elven enchanters respect.

As far as I can see, this will always be the way until the server is so full of players that evil religions or more predjudiced races such as elves can form adequate player groups and factions and can form that distance where they don't require those outside of their clicky little social group, to survive.

I'd love to see that, it's the environment my half-orc was created in and I really used to be up against it with the IC racism and social exclusion. Those were hard and great times. Real character defining stuff.

Never be afraid to use words like, snout, or peck or pointy in game. Especially if your an evil git.

[Kaeldorn]

It's relevant because 'evil races' being treated as such leads to a big incentive for them to actually grow into evilness throughout the levels. Poor treatment easily leads to an inner drive to get back at those who picked on you. And characters who naturally grow into evil are much more likely to stick to it than those who receive cuddles, hugs and 'aww, let's be friends with the misunderstood guy' scenario's.

[Phantom Lamb]

...or to crying out, "HEY YOU GUYS!" randomly...

Jugga was hugged too much!

[Azulfae]

Thats, "HEY YOUZ GUUUUUUUUUUYZ!!!" And yeah, I ripped off the goonies. :P

Juggra is probably being hugged too much on this server. That said he was started as chaotic evil on another, in a band of many similar persona half orc characters.

Interestingly we walked about in a little gang being chaotic stupid. Every time the racism came, we ended up in sub dual giving the rest of the server a damngood beat down until someone would log on with their uber level Lawful good PC and exterminate us.

Funny how those players were always rewarded for their RP and we never got any recognition for ours. End of the day. A half orc sees all his buddies murdered for being what they are and someone offers him a chance to be accepted and Juggra took it. He corrected his ways and tried to be a better half-human.

That said, I honestly thought coming to a new server where no one knew him, this character would have had to have worked a lot harder to prove himself.

There is no chance in hell though that I'm going to forget nearly 4 years of RP and turn him back to evil after all he's been through to better himself. Especially not at, co-incidentally, level 15.

My opinion at the end of the day is, lead by example. If you have something up your ass about how others are playing a certain concept, play it yourself the way you think it should be done.

Now, i'm off for a pint and a piss, in the Sundren comfort.