Sweet! I'm Level 15! NOW I Can Be Evil!

[gbbishop]

evil PCs are a conundrum to me.

they want to be included in the group... ie have ppl to adventure with. join a table in PNP.

but in the end they just want stab them in the back. or do other evil manipulative things.

how many friends do you have that have intentionally stabbed you in the back?
i would venture that the number is very low... perhaps even ZERO. nobody likes to be betrayed. i will cede that in the interest of good story telling sometimes there is a place.

i personally don't feel any pity for evil characters and their woes... i have a few evil toons, they just aren't as much fun as my dwarves so i dont play them. actually one of my dwarves might just be evil... too early to tell.

the point? i guess i agree with the way sundren caters to it's various alignments as is.

so evil bastards, if you want to be included... be smart and figure it out there are so many solutions with out trying to change the system some are even outlined here in this thread.

as a side note: as an evil character, i am very uncomfortable in the company of other evils... because i know what they are capable of.

[EndsBeginning]

Meh just kill em all and let the gods sort em out.

[TheBlankStare]

I've been following this thread for the past little bit and it's filled with helpful hints about how to be evil and get away with it. I've played my share of evil in different guises and even have a relatively successful evil character right now. It's fun to be bad sometimes.

I think one of the big problems a lot of people have when they try out evil for a while is that we tend to forget that our characters are people who just happen to be evil. The blacksmith making mundane metal items but who is mistreated by everyone because of his scarred face could easily be an evil kind of guy. Make him mad and your horse might throw a shoe in a bad situation. Even the local baker could be evil and poison your bread. They probably wouldn't do those types of things because it might be bad for business.

I think it's important enough to repeat: evil characters are people first. Most of us (hopefully) are pretty good people in real life so it's difficult to play convincing evil in a game without resorting to the stereotypes we find in fiction and movies. While playing such a character might be fun for about a week or so they're probably going to end up either abandoned or dead in short order. They might get killed by a good guy but it's far more likely that they'll be offed by a smart bad guy for being dumb.

It's actually kind of boring encountering someone who is playing an evil character just so that they can be a jerk all the time and have an excuse for it. If that happens to be fun for you go for it but don't expect a lot of people to want to help you out (unless they happen to be masochists).

Evilness doesn't have to necessarily be the overriding goal of a character's persona. In many cases, being evil might even be the least interesting aspect of a character. One of my favorite characters in Sundren is a blackguard. Normal interaction with this blackguard wouldn't lead one to believe that the character is anything other than a mercenary. Spend some time with that character and you can sense things beneath the surface . . . things not quite right. Spend some more time with them and you get the feeling that there is something about them that's worth saving. That's much more entertaining than encountering someone who just wants to pick a fight.

[Azulfae]

evil PCs are a conundrum to me.

they want to be included in the group... ie have ppl to adventure with. join a table in PNP.

but in the end they just want stab them in the back. or do other evil manipulative things.

how many friends do you have that have intentionally stabbed you in the back?
i would venture that the number is very low... perhaps even ZERO. nobody likes to be betrayed. i will cede that in the interest of good story telling sometimes there is a place.

This is a very important point.

I have found playing evil is not about looking to prove you are evil by doing something stupid at every opportunity.

I know people who are evil in real life yep. Some people are just evil but they don't go around being like count dracula all day long. they are normal and nice and friendly and come around for a beer and don't steal anything from your house and don't murder you and your wife and all that stuff.

What they do do is their own business and it goes on behind closed doors or within the institutions they work in. Perhaps their job infact involved being a total evil git. They still have friends and can go paintballing with the local church group if they want.

Play an evil PC, be good, just try and get in on bad activities with your other evil people, when the DM's can get you all aside from the good folks.

[Kaeldorn]

Play an evil PC, be good, just try and get in on bad activities with your other evil people, when the DM's can get you all aside from the good folks.

Hmm.. no. Truly behaving like someone good (if that's what you meant) usually doesn't enhance the RP environment either. There is certainly room for extremes, and doing evil deeds to people (including friends if some 'greater' motivation is in play) is not at all out of the question. Just don't be too obvious about it

[Swanky Yankee]

Hello everyone! First time posting here. I can't wait to join the server (waiting for SoZ to download). In the mean time I have a question regarding use of detect alignment.

Wouldn't the use of a detect alignment spell without reasonable cause constitute meta-gaming? I know a 'precautionary' casting of such a spell could be rationalized a hundred different ways, but in the context of the game it's a crappy thing to just randomly do.

From an RP perspective casting detect evil on some one could be interpreted as a serious charge against that person's integrity and character. This could in turn be taken as a serious insult--a baseless and slanderous accusation against one's virtue. Not something to be done lightly. If I was playing a good character and some presumptuous Paladin cast detect evil on me I would RP offense like the bees knees and probably shun the offender from that point on.

My experience on other servers has lead me to believe that random use of the detect alignment spell on PCs undermines good RP. It takes a complex issue like good and evil, with all the moral conundrums that are so interesting to RP, and turns it into an us vs. them cartoon of all good vs. all evil all the time.

Just 2c from a newb still waiting to roll his character.

[Saulus]

Yes as always the rule of thumb is detect evil without provocation is bad form and your local DM won't be very happy if they see it. "He looked evil" is a poor excuse.

[Fezzik]

I think Detect alignment can be used more at the Paladin's discretion. If they have reason to believe that someone is evil, do to how they talk or act, then it should be used. If they do it willy nilly without a good reason, that's a little extreme - unless they are an Ultra-Paladin, but they have to realize that not many people are going to be wanting to hang out with them even if they aren't evil, because they'll be poking their Lawful Good little nose into anything that isn't Lawful as well (and if they aren't, they shouldn't be so picky with trying to ferret out evil to squash everyone's "rights")

Now, if we want clarification, I think we should have it. Does a Paladin's "don't mess around with evil people" mean that he shouldn't mess around with people that he knows are evil (whom he's soul interrogated), or just people that have committed evil acts in his presence or around trusted allies? This makes a huge difference in RP. IE. "That guy is wearing a hood in public, it isn't against the law, but it's frowned upon (18 second glare) - Yup, I was right, he's evil." and "Oh, yeah that guy committed what was borderline murder... I shouldn't hang around with him and I should arrest him and/or try to rehabilitate him."

This might seem to be drifting a bit off-topic, but I think it's a relavent case. Some of our char recently "learned" that a good friend of theirs was actually evil; now they don't hang out with her anymore.. .not because she committed anything bad, but because of what she said, a Paladin had reason to examine her ... again (she had been examined when they first met) and voila!! Evil to the bone! Sometimes you don't have to be <expletives deleted or not put in to not offend anyone's eyes> to be evil, it can be a slow turn... like everyone's favourite Jedi, Darth Vadar!

[Azulfae]

Hmm.. no. Truly behaving like someone good (if that's what you meant) usually doesn't enhance the RP environment either. There is certainly room for extremes, and doing evil deeds to people (including friends if some 'greater' motivation is in play) is not at all out of the question. Just don't be too obvious about it

I didn't mean go about doing goody goodpants stuff that goes against being evil i just mean't effectively niot doing wrong things openly. I.E. Bahaving ones self in public.

Oh of course unless some greater motivation is in play

[Zantul]

Who said that evil guys won't team up with good guys? How about them trying to establish trusted allies among the good folk, so they can backstab them later? Make them believe they're really good guys?

Being evil is about deceiving people.

Being evil is not about running around puffing out your chest and saying "Hey, look at me, I'm evil and I will kill you now for no reason other than that I can!"

Who says you have to let on you're a bad guy? The only problem you could possible run into is if a paladin decides to use detect evil on you - which most Pallies might not normally do without good reason, because it's incredibly rude.

Wow great post it jerked a tear. "Being evil is about decieving people." You can be town mayor and be evil and make people believe you are the fairest and kindest loving person on toril. If someone rubs you the wrong way you can use you manipulative ways to coax someone to do your bidding with coin or some smarts. Just like palpatine in Star Wars made Anakin turn to the dark side out of his love for padame and in turn gained a loyal servant of the dark side. He didn't have to pay anyone a dime he saw his weakness and used it against him. Manipulative genius. I play a good character but being evil can be WAY more fun if you know what you are doing.

chaotic evil is for dummies but Lawful evil is where the $$ is at

[Thief Of Navarre]

I always try to play my evil characters methodically. Chaotic evil characters are VERY hard to play well.. its hard to draw the line sometimes.

I have to agree with Zantul though;

http://www.sundren.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4192

Heh, you've all probably read this one before but I just thought it was appropriate

[Iso]

On Sundren, the more polite an evil character of mine is, the more they're shunned. The more brutal and dastardly one of my neutral characters is, the better liked they generally are. I can't figure it out.

[Kaeldorn]

I've also had a bit of a tough time believing how friendly everyone is to half orcs and even gray orcs. I mean come on, even good aligned people may treat them as outcasts, although they might not be intentionally mean to them.

I mean the former are almost always products of some monster forcing himself on a woman. They are practically stains on what humans perceive as a civilized society. Gray orcs themselves are by nature monstrous. They're the type that doesn't just joke about eating babies but who actually do that. The 'awww, we can't judge them until they're proven bad' really doesn't logically work out. It's like refusing to kick away or kill a snake or venomous spider that's about to crawl into your bed, only because it hasn't bitten you yet.

[DireBadgerEntersRage]

I don't think I'll ever forget the time when I decided to play out my elf and be unwelcoming of half-orcs only to get reprimanded for that by another elf. O_o Thankfully, that happened a long time ago on a server far far away.

On the other hand, my evil character was on the verge of becoming a hero. Unfortunatelly I stoped playing before I could either become a hero or rub it in everyone's faces.

[Konchuu]

I agree total, but the problem is also how few of the half-orcs in Sundren who actually act like monstrous brutes. When Lida first came to Sundren she was downright racist of them and hated them. But after having meet almost exclusively only good, well mannered and polite half-orcs in her time here she have been convinced (several times) that you should at least give them the benefit of a doubt.