Jail-Breaking our Hearts

[Kaybrie]

As one of the few players who's had a permanent negative ability modifier applied to my PC for their actions, I can say that it was fun. And it added to the RP. Conflict is good, but when consequences are tossed out the window, and only rewards are given, it becomes meaningless and stagnant.

Take notes.

We need them in jail longer than twelve hours for that, as the jail breaks usually occur within that timeframe, when the inept legion is slain to a man by a lone assailant, or vampires come out at noon under cloud cover and stage an elaborate-but-impromptu ambush, or and so on.

Happens more often then I'd like, I was supposed to run an event overseeing a recent captives punishment, though (s)he was in and out of Jail (Busted out by another DM) before I was ever given the opportunity to do so.

[Satoshi]

A written (forum) report would need to be submitted as characters found in jail without the proper paperwork would need to be released.

One thing I personally would like to see more of is due process. All to often it's simply arrest & punishment. Where's the trials, lawyers, outrageous bluff skills, bribes, jury tampering, witness intimidation. Arrest =\= guilt.

I would love to see more of this, as well as more of the political beast that heads Sundren as a nation (the Arbiter weekly meetings, political wrangling with the Exarchs, the factions trying to meddle in the State's affairs, etc). But we don't see much of that because it's already a strain on the small portion of Active DMs who are around frequently. Even though we are playing Trials headed by Tyrran priests and Helmite watchfuls doesn't mean that slimy lawyers and really damn good (magical or non-magical) liars can't get away, and I know that the bad guys have a lot of pull in *certain* noble houses that can buy down punishments for 'important' people.

[Doubtful]

Something else for people to think about, and another reason for those nasty magic users to be persecuted. From the laws.

Regarding Rape
Rape is defined as violence of grand proportions against a member or members of the Good Races, and includes acts of sexual violation and unsolicited intrusion to or manipulation of the mind by means of magic. A perpetrator of rape is sometimes subject to trial in a court of law, and conviction typically leads to imprisonment, community service, fines, public humiliation in the pillory, or exile.

Confusion, Domination, Daze, Sleep, Slumber, Hold. Well, pretty much all of the aggressive Enchantment spells and quite a lot of the Illusion school are illegal in Sundren. Best be careful what spells you use in front of the Legion.

[SeekerofKnowledge]

On "people" anyway.

[Doubtful]

To an extent.

While the law only truly cares about what happens to the Good Races, those that enforce it would do well to keep an eye on those who're happy to go around committing raping animals and monsters.

It's use against humans and their kind would be really frowned upon, that includes factions such as the Cartel and Veritas. Certainly anyone in the Legion using it against good raced foes would be up for court marshal, anyone not in the Legion would be arrested and tried.

Mind control is the stuff of horror and nightmares, that's something that should be remembered. It's in with Rape for a reason.

[blurry89]

Certainly anyone in the Legion using it against good raced foes would be up for court marshal

Martial law. The Legion are, as it stands now in Sundren RP, above it.

Edit - Unless, of course, such a thing has already been passed down to the Legion from a higher command. Then it'd be that + disobeying an order.

Edit 2- Unless, of course, I'm completely wrong.

[Doubtful]

Martial Law isn't carte blanche for Legionnaires to do whatever they feel like or use whatever methods they want (publicly anyway) it does offer a little more flexibility in some situations, but Legionnaires are still answerable for what they do, at least to the Legion higher ups.

A Legion soldier who forced himself on a woman would be court marshaled and hung if found guilty, invading or controlling someones mind is on a par with that, and should illicit the same reaction. Under Marshall law the Legion certainly wouldn't turn a blind eye to the former, neither would it do the same for the latter.

It's less socially acceptable than summoning zombies.

[Satoshi]

And Hand of Mundus mages (Right and Left, irregardless) will still get away with it, as long as it's 'in pursuit of justice against the war-time enemies of the State.' On a side note, that makes Will an even more dangerous vagrant drifter. Hohoho.

[Poltergeist]

Irregardless is not a word. 50 points from Sinistrum!

Also, while Hands may be able to 'get away with it', don't expect to get away clean. Commoners are terrified of mind control and the Hands leadership is very cognizant of that. A Hand running around and enslaving the minds of others willy-nilly is a PR nighmare and can expect to find themselves collecting guano for a month if they terrify enough people.

[Qinniqtuq Aggaak]

Also, while Hands may be able to 'get away with it', don't expect to get away clean. Commoners are terrified of mind control and the Hands leadership is very cognizant of that. A Hand running around and enslaving the minds of others willy-nilly is a PR nighmare and can expect to find themselves collecting guano for a month if they terrify enough people.

That also goes with Necromancy spells as well... You know who you are.

[Zoberraz]

Confusion, Domination, Daze, Sleep, Slumber, Hold. Well, pretty much all of the aggressive Enchantment spells and quite a lot of the Illusion school are illegal in Sundren. Best be careful what spells you use in front of the Legion.

Except when Maia is the one doing said Confusion or Sleep spells. Then, it's not illegal, it's cute.

[Doubtful]

Confusion, Domination, Daze, Sleep, Slumber, Hold. Well, pretty much all of the aggressive Enchantment spells and quite a lot of the Illusion school are illegal in Sundren. Best be careful what spells you use in front of the Legion.

Except when Maia is the one doing said Confusion or Sleep spells. Then, it's not illegal, it's cute.

Cute!? That fey thing?

Everyone knows Maia is some sprite from the Winter Court come to confuse good men into getting lost forever in the forests, send pretty maidens to sleep for a thousand years or steal away children to dance themselves to death for the entertainment of the court.

She gets caught for affecting minds then it's the pillory to be pelted with iron horseshoes, then execution by hanging over running water. Cremation will follow, but with a sprig of hawthorn driven through her heart for good measure.

[ThePaganKing]

IMO it comes down to basic role play, whether you are good or evil aligned, if you do something evil or against the law be prepared to suffer the consequences. I am not saying it has to be forever, but part of the fun and rp aspect can be the length of jail term if you get caught.

Either that or skirt the law like my evil character does, to a razor thin edge so that they can't take action or commit your sins without witnesses.

Man, you just have to realize that if you "do the crime, be prepared to do the time."

[Nascent_Legion]

It was mentioned before (I'm not good at doing the whole quoting thing on forums) that since death is cheap, the punishment for crimes related to killing should be cheap.

Suggestion: Make the punishment for dying not cheap, make the punishment for killing someone not cheap.

It was also mentioned that sundren has a 99.5% success rate on keeping people imprisoned, yet mentioning that to anyone is a waste of DM time.

Statment: The DM's primary job, as written in the Players handbook and the DMG, states "The primary job of a DM is to tell a story that is fun for the players and themselves as storytellers." Now, I'm sure the storytellers are having fun, but as has been mentioned by previous posts by people within the legion, they are NOT having fun being bombarded with being told they are the most incompetant soldiers for letting everyone go. "Out of sight, out of mind" Applies precisely in this case. The only things ever mentioned by anyone are the jail breaks, so that is all that matters.

Suggestion: The DM's AND the players should make posts, that show that the legion is actually doing it's job, efficiently, and perhaps there could be a few events for the legion/hands where they get to capture lawbreakers (NPC) and they are actually arrested and not broken out.

As it stands now, from what I've seen so far being on the server, the punishment for casting a "Hold monster" spell on someone is far worse then the punishment for stabbing him in the kidney until he bleeds to near death. Although it was also mentioned that a player can "Take all the gold OR one item from a defeated player.", that simply just isn't viable in the current system of equipment. Equipment is so unusually difficult to come by for so many folk, that losing the armor or ring they spent over a month getting just for losing in a PVP they probably couldn't win anyways, despite the pvp being a result of them commiting a crime they deserve punishment for, is actually almost harsher then perming them.

My reason for this being: Character is permed, you make a new character. Lose a valued item needed for gaining levels, YOu get stuck in lower level areas, leveling far slower until you achieve the funds to repurchase that item, if it's even possible. Not to mention respawning has a chance to make you lose one or more items as well, so you can get "killed", get an item taken, then revive to lose two more pieces of equipment. If you are level 12 or so, that might mean you lost your one good weapon, your armor, and your boots, thus losing a lot of AC, and having to use a less useful weapon to fight the exact same battles.

I believe the punishment for crimes should be a reduction in rep with the Sundren faction, the amount of which is based upon the severity and number of the crimes committed. A number that will not too harshly inconvenience one-time offenders who learn their lesson, but will make repeat offenders unable to go to those places which the law is in force.

Will this make it difficult for super-evil people who commit a lot of crimes to use the bank, sell items, and move around populated areas? Probably. Question: why shouldn't it? I say this, playing an evil aligned PC who will, once the time is right, murder, assault, and generally terrify as many folk as he can. If I don't actually get any real punishment out of my effort, then it makes it so that I might as well not even bothered.

As to the question of "Does the sundren jail system work?", I don't have a lot of experience with it, but from what I've gotten to see so far? No, it doesn't, at all. From my perspective, the legion is incompetant, and might as well just be leaving the cell doors open with no guards for all the good it does, and until something, ANYthing is mentioned or proven otherwise, that is not going to change.

It takes so little effort to make such a big difference for some people, and saying doing ANYthing in that regard is a waste of time, just belittles the people who are already being degenerated that much more.

[FoogooFish]

I believe the punishment for crimes should be a reduction in rep with the Sundren faction, the amount of which is based upon the severity and number of the crimes committed. A number that will not too harshly inconvenience one-time offenders who learn their lesson, but will make repeat offenders unable to go to those places which the law is in force.

I actually love your entire post, but this blurb here is a brilliant suggestion.

Most of the evil-doers, thieves, cut-throats, and general ne'er-do-wells play it smart and avoid getting caught. We all know OOC who is Eboncoin and Cartel, but do you see Kitsunetsume, Daniel, or Kirk being hauled into the jail? No, because they conduct their nefarious activities in private. Most people who get caught are the people who flaunt their wickedness in the open and dare someone to stop them - and then when they get stopped (which is supposed to be what happens if the peace enforcers are properly RPing their characters!) we have what seems to be jail break after jail break after jail break.

Yes, fun has to be kept in mind - but what also needs to be kept in mind is that there needs to be some sort of balance so that both sides involved feel like their RP was worth the effort.