Jail-Breaking our Hearts

[FoogooFish]

I actually like the idea as well. I think the NPC should be in the jail itself, because that'd make more sense. All Sundren government PCs (Hands, Legion, and Redblades) could use it, and I'd say the Helmite faction should use it as well.

I don't necessarily think that the to-be-jailed PC needs to be in the party... just in the immediate area. Choosing an option for "Who do you want to jail?" could bring up a menu similar to the Locate Creature / Sending one, and then the chosen PC would be teleported to a specified area ( a list of available cells, perhaps!) while the arresting PC is teleported to another specified area (right outside the cell.)

Definitely a good idea over all... just needs the kinks and specifics detailed.

[ManUtd4Ever]

It is a difficult problem. You can't have an NPC judge what actions took place IC.

Good point. However, the NPC Judge is only rendering judgment based on the IC action of the selectee [read: legionnaire, red blade, or Hand]. The player must select the crime for which the accused is being tried. This selection is in fact an IC action, albeit mechanical.

I'd say the Helmite faction should use it as well.

I would have never left the CdG if I felt my character could have made more of an impact during Martial Law. As such it makes sense to me that DM/Devs be able to "toggle on/off" other factions, as appropriate, to enable their ability to arrest and hold persons in judgment.

[SeekerofKnowledge]

Good point. However, the NPC Judge is only rendering judgment based on the IC action of the selectee [read: legionnaire, red blade, or Hand]. The player must select the crime for which the accused is being tried. This selection is in fact an IC action, albeit mechanical.

Sorry. I was just saying why I suggested the infraction options.
Thought came a post late. XD

[roguethree]

Tangential suggestion:

If someone commits a crime that's punishable by exile or death and that PC is then caught and submitted to authorities, then let that PC be exiled or die. Forever. The signus can be used as it was once said it would be used: as a get-out-of-impending-doom free card.

Fugitives should be on the run, avoiding civilized areas and especially PCs who will bring them to the law. The obvious counter argument is that it makes it harder to play a criminal or evil bastard. Yeah. It does, and it should. It should be harder to exist in a lawful, quasi-good society as a criminal/evildoer.

Mass hangings, plz.

[SeekerofKnowledge]

I can agree on the point that criminals should be treated like criminals.

[Guard-of-Stars]

I think part of the problem is that perma-jailing, perma-killing, perma-exiling, etc. a character is an enormous OOC punishment. Dozens of hours of work are required for a character to come from the caravan to being able to interact in a meaningful way with upper-level characters on a mechanical basis (Obviously, in non-mechanical RP, anything is possible). And let's be frank: whatever fun upgrades are present in the Big New Update, NWN2 combat at low levels consists of watching your character auto-attack once every six second and miss half the time.

It is, however, a bit too late to fix the issue of level spread, if that is an issue. ^^ I just hope that the DMs and Staff are reasonably open to allowing players of characters Permed By Story to skip some of the tedious parts.

For my part, I think that the suggestion of stricter fines, etc. is a good one, and the judge would be a really neat idea. It seems like a good compromise to me.

[Cornuto]

The valley outside the cities isn't all that lawful, and the legion aren't the only faction that has jail cells. If the player-base wants "exile or death" for criminals apprehended by the legion, I'd imagine the same would apply to folks running about being extra lawful-goody who get captured by roaming herds of level 20 Banite power ranger villains.

[SeekerofKnowledge]

I think people are used to seeing this issue polarized. In truth there are more options than Exile or Death and Revolving Door non-punishments.

We have the groundwork of a decent one here I think.

[Satoshi]

I do agree that Occum's Razor needs to cut both ways. That's why I would love to see more Black Tax assassinations, more PC Cyricist murders (or Bhaalite, if we absolutely must walk that road), more Bane grasping everything it can dominate into slavery and torture. Lasting repercussions for players at all levels, not just poor newbies who get stepped on until they reach high level.

[Cornuto]

Strict fines can be done under the current PvP rules:

-Characters that are subdued or killed must allow the victor access to their inventory, but with restrictions, for OOC griefing reasons. Victors may take all of the victim's gold OR a single item from their inventory (this includes worn and unworn items). Players are NOT allowed to ask "stats" on items; simply take whichever item your character thinks looks the most expensive or powerful. Players concerned about losing all their gold should be reminded about our in-game banking system.

Beat up a criminal, take all his gold, tell him its a fine.

[SeekerofKnowledge]

I've never supported breaking that PVP rule. 1 item or all the gold sounds fair.
Fun should come first, it is a game. I don't think the jail system should ever penalize more than that as far as gold or items are concerned.

I would also like to suggest the wartime solution for less heinous crimes: Let the people work off their debt to society by community service. The pragmatic part is that said service could be a stint in a penal legion fighting on one of the fronts. A "Community Service" quest in the journal to kill ability appropriate foes of Sundren.

That gets the less vile characters out doing something and it gives them an excuse to interact with other, lawful members of society. It lets the lawful members feel like they helped instill order and did their job. Seems win win.

[Seheren]

Personally, I have never ((nor do I intend to)) take an item or gold upon PvP death. Though it is allowed, I just feel that it can breed OOC hostility. However, in some cases it can lead to something, but I would want to set something up with the player first. It's supposed to be fun, and it gets a lot less fun when some power build walks on you, takes your best item, and destroys it.

On topic with the mechanic to put people in jail, I have some serious reservations, but with the NWN2 system I hardly think a better option is available without a DM. I would not mind seeing it in the future. Especially if there is a Black Hand one, so the door swings both ways.

[Doubtful]

The time needs to fit the crime.

If characters can be permanently or temporarily removed from play in response for a crime,.they should be able to have done the same in order to deserve the penalty.

Having an object that can only be used on subdued (less than 2% health) PCs to either remove them from play to a faction jail, or do 100 points of vitality damage and insta kill.

Otherwise it's just like Cornys first post.

[SeekerofKnowledge]

I agree that punishments should fit the laws broken.

I think the Community Service quest could be offered for that.
To enforce it: Perhaps each quest is geared to the infraction set by the PC.
Reputation with Sundren is lost, and returned upon completion of the quest.

Maybe certain people or temples wouldn't sell to you if your rep was too low. And of course you would be barred from the city if it kept falling.

[Sunset Fallow]

Doubtful has a very valid point. We are all here because we enjoy doing stuff, and being in jail severely curtails "doing stuff". We also are not here as a mutual admiration society, thus the conflict. Without good guys, bad guys, left and right...and the myriad of flavors in between, it gets boring fast...like the smart guy said; "To a heroes glory and triumph made, from a villian are his exploits laid."

But, society in general wants those who do not abide by the rules to be punished...or do they? I think they want those who break the rules to be punished...sorta. But I think, more importantly, they want recompense for injury and loss and protection from harm.

So, we can punish offenders but prolonged imprisonment, as has been said, detracts from RP and frustrates characters. We still need that punishment to bring the idea of being a villian into line with accepted moral ideology. So, what punishment?

Well, that is up to the DM's but I'd make the recompence fit the crime...gold is choice number one, then as things get worse, I can think of all sorts of things I do not want to lose. But, making the punishment too severe might do more harm than good.