Zone of Revelation reveals too much?

[Doubtful]

Removing a major selling point of an entire class with one simple spell is a bit more than a bandage, and simply serves to further break the broken balance.

Especially when their other main selling point (sneak attack) is already negated by a long lasting spell that tends to be cast by the same class.

[DM_Acorn]

Easy now. We all know that spell casters have many advantages. But that said daily spell allotments are made over powered by the fact that they can rest every 10 min, and yes, it take 6 seconds.

Maybe folks need to think outside the box a little more instead of building these one trick ponies, that become obsolete due to a 6th level spell. I have ZERO pity for the maxed-dex-hin-sneak-with-HiPS that get pulled out of stealth by ZoR. He/she better have another trick up their sleeves.

Doubt has brought up a good point though. Sneaks seem to have no wins against a cleric/FS...

My advise stay far enough away so as not to get blown by a ZoR and when the pop of one of their ten daily rests then go get um.

[Doubtful]

I've seen some servers that have a modified version of the resting script, so it takes 60 seconds to regain health and spells rather than 6 seconds and includes a debuff and -AC into the bargain.

Having that introduced would be an absolute winner, and make the idea of killing a target while they're resting a viable proposition.

[Root]

Can't anyone who can cast this already render themselves immune to sneaks and criticals anyway?

[BedlamX]

Quote:
Zone of Revelation
Divination
Level: Clr 3, Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S, DF/M
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Area: 5-ft.-radius/level emanation
Duration: 1 minute/level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes
All creatures and objects within zone of revelation’s area are
made visible. This includes invisible creatures as well as
those in coexistent planes such as the Ethereal Plane and
the Plane of Shadow. Natives of these planes do not lose
any abilities but are made simply made visible.
Zone of revelation suppresses but does not dispel invisibility,
etherealness, or other spells. Once a formerly
invisible object or creature leaves the area, it becomes
invisible again.
Arcane Material Component: A handful of dust from the
grave clothes of an undead creature.
From the manual of planes. Heh, it's not even supposed to dispel etherealness or invisibility.

From what I read in this description, the spell is working as intended with regards to "All creatures and objects within zone of revelation’s area" becoming visible. The only part that doesn't seem to fit is that it actually dispels all the spell/natural ability ways of making someone invisible. A rogue with a maxed stealth and HIPS could simply move away and hit stealth again. Then come back for revenge at a later time when the spell is not up or the caster has moved. Wait till they hit rest and stab the crap outta them while they are resting. Or just set them hostile and hang in the area until the spells wear off so they can't rest.

The only people that really get shafted by this spell (in terms of it not working as in PnP) are the casters that use the spells to hide. They should easily be able to move out of the area of effect and pop right back to invisible/ethereal/whatever.

Spot as a class skill is almost unheard of for casters or fighters. And, with the abundance of stealth gear and virtually nothing for spot/listen boosts, I think having one, higher level spell mess up the uber stealth build for a limited time, is just not that big a deal. Hells, I built a favored soul that had a pretty decent hide skill just from gear alone (at lvl 5 or 6, he had something like a 17)...and even in masterwork full plate. It's not unheard of to see stealth numbers in the 60s (maybe even higher). Spot...without the mentioned boosting spells that fighter types simply do not get...lucky to hit the upper 20s. Since nothing breaks stealth in NWN2 other than this spell, being spotted by people that normally can't come close to matching the hide skill of rogues with the gear available, or performing a hostile action (and using summoning scrolls, setting a shit-load of traps right next to the guy, or anything else that has teh same effect as a "hostile action" does not count as hostile in this game), I really don't see the problem with one, 6th level spell.

Basically, I see this whole discussion as yet another gripe about casters. It's one 6th level spell that is only available to divine casters that think ahead of time to load it (or take it as one of their known spells for spontaneous casters). If they know you are hunting them OOCly and suddenly rest to get a max load out of ZoR...screenshot that shit. It is the most blatant case of metagaming I have ever seen. Let a few people that do this get docked a couple thousand xp and gold over few infractions and it will stop.

Done ranting for now.

[Lollercide]

Maybe folks need to think outside the box a little more instead of building these one trick ponies, that become obsolete due to a 6th level spell. I have ZERO pity for the maxed-dex-hin-sneak-with-HiPS that get pulled out of stealth by ZoR. He/she better have another trick up their sleeves.

As a person who plays a max DEX tiefling sneak with HiPs, and also has a lot of RP backup plans, I can say that you should have pity. I never cheese-HiPS away, always RPing when I vanish with HiPS by throwing down a contraption that explodes or creates a screen of fog. I then let people roll initiative in attempt to grapple me before I HiPS. I try to do this, because I have a LOT of RP skills that help me get away, like climb, escape artist, etc. However, this does not ever help me. In fact, I normally get PvP killed without the same RP etiquette.


It is not only from players. DMs have forced me to make DC checks that are higher than what I could make if I rolled a 20, and that was in the stat I maxed with a ECL that has bonus dexterity, on top of that, just to perform a mundane RP task or execute a RP plan. Rolling a 20 on a stat (total 27, which is BEYOND epic in PnP) that you have the highest on in the server isn't enough for a mundane task? Ridiculous.

If good RP is my backup plan that will not work, then I have nothing but mechanics to rely on. What, then, do rogues have to rely on as far as mechanics go? Sneak attack and stealth. I ask you to go through your head of the list of classes that make themselves immune to sneak attack with long duration/easy cast buffs. I then ask you to go through the list of classes that can reliably counteract their stealth.

My advise stay far enough away so as not to get blown by a ZoR and when the pop of one of their ten daily rests then go get um.

I do not believe you have ever fought a Favored Soul or Cleric before as a rogue. I challenge you to wait outside the radius of Zone of Revealation, watch them rest, try to make it within 30ft of them (to sneak attack with a ranged weapon) when their buffs go down, and attack before they begin rebuffing. I then challenge you to not get obliterated when they go ethereal and rebuff, or cast word of faith on you and destroy you.

The only strategy for a rogue to beat a FS or Cleric is to come with a lot of wizards, or another cleric/FS to help. Anything short of that will do nothing.

Rogues do not need the nerf of Zone of Revealation. Favored Souls, Clerics, and Wizards do not need the buff this spell provides.

[Ebannon]

You can also place about fifty traps on a given location and watch them walk over it. You better be prepared to reap the whirlwind of hard-core nerd-rage you'll get from it though.

[Lollercide]

You can also place about fifty traps on a given location and watch them walk over it. You better be prepared to reap the whirlwind of hard-core nerd-rage you'll get from it though.

I got in severe DM trouble for doing this once (XP dock), but the nerd-rage was still the same as people have with HiPS.

[Ebannon]

Sorry for the de-rail. Let's get back to talking about how lame/awesome this spell is.

[Lilene Jora]

As an aside, not all classes that rely on stealth have hips to easily disengage and re-engage when revealed by a zone. As for the interpretation of "all objects being made visible". Unless it gives you x-ray vision...how does the zone reveal someone mundane hiding behind a mundane tree?

[roguethree]

It's magic.

[Lilene Jora]

Snide comment aside. The person standing behind a tree is "visible" to the naked eye, they're just obstructed. I think the context of the spell's wording implies visible as, "visible to the naked eye", as opposed to invisible, ethereal, or otherwise magically shrouded. Otherwise we should start watching out for those lecherous users of ZOR that can see our undies because they've been rendered "visible" while inside the zone, despite being under our pants.

[Taste Master]

Otherwise we should start watching out for those lecherous users of ZOR that can see our undies because they've been rendered "visible" while inside the zone, despite being under our pants.

I now support ZOR and all the potential it holds.

[Kaeldorn]

There's a book containing spells like that

[crazyjerren]

On an old NWN1 server I played on, amplify and clairaudience/voyance were changed to provide lower bonuses but last a minute per level and true seeing gave a bonus to spot. As well, most of the stealth gear had no other bonuses so if you chose stealth gear you were taking a major hit to other abilities.

I know changing gear is a hard one to do, but there were scripts put in place to check for said items in a characters inventory and give them a nerfed version.

I for one agree that the spell as stands is too much, I tended to like the idea of just removing the hide kicker and giving a spot/listen bonus to all within the zone. If this is coupled with teamwork and other spells, catching a sneaker should still be possible.

Also: Sleep taking 1 minute and giving penalties is a glorious idea to me! It might make people also try to use safer area's to rest in. If there is a way to make the 'penalty' a coup de grace, even better! No one who is fear of their life should be resting out in the open, without someone watching their back, and not pay the consequences.