Zone of Revelation reveals too much?

[Philosopher]

this spell needs to GTFO of the Cleric/FS spellist, those fuckers have everything. A cleric/FS who complains about not being able to see a rogue or any other Hide/MS makes me lol when things like persistant and extended Body of Undeath and Stone Body are around.

I agree that divine casters get so much awesome crap that they really don't need a spell to destroy sneakers too.

On a different note: Would it be possible to script one of those general feats (like charge, densive mode, assist etc etc) where it simply just breaks stealth on someone?

You can't target someone you can't see, but if you do see them - you can target them, hit the feat, break the stealth - point them out.

This I'm not 100% on. I think its perfectly plausible for some to see a sneaker, but others not to. I also think there are times when its legitimate for a sneaker to speak while stealthed, depending wholly on the circumstance and the cover involved. When someone whispers to you in the dark, you don't automatically see them, do you? You might have an idea about where they are (like where you see their text pop up on screen) but you don't see them.

[DM_Acorn]

Yes a 6th level spell for a Paladin. That would solve all problems... wait.

But I think Foo had some great points here. I really don't have any problems with this spell. If a FS wants to use a spell known on it, more power to them. There are far more powerful 6th level spells.

The problem I see is that say a caster pops this off. Then a rogue sneaks up behind them. They are pulled out of stealth and the the player then totally disregards the 180 LOS rule and turns and fights.

Would it be possible to change the emanation to only 180 in front of the caster?

As I understand it, the area stays with the caster. That would be my only real problem with the spell as it stands. I guess I would like to see it static. Cast it, it protects a "zone" ie an area. Not "I walk around and no one can sneak up on me! DUR da DUr da dur."

The simple fact is:

Spells have always compensated for skills. Why should spot and listen be any different.

Knock - Open Lock
Reveal Traps - Search
Detect Thoughts - Sense Motive
Spider Climb - uh what was that skill...?

[greendragon]

One word: Infravision. What a great way to spot people/creatures hiding! Being able to see in the infrared spectrum has a lot of other uses. Too bad the morons at WotC nerfed it for Darkvision. This is just one of the many reasons I hate 3-4 edition rules.

[Kaeldorn]

I fail to see why people are making a fuss of a utility spell that functions about as close as it gets to PnP (can't suppress effects, and etherealness is just different in NWN2) and that actually has some RP value. Granted, the stealth removal might not be entirely accurate, but given how easily hide/ms is abused in NWN2 and all of Sundren's +stealth items and the lack of other spells to counter it, it seems fair enough to me. Especially because the zone is stationary. If there was a visual effect, it would render the spell practically useless. You shouldn't be able to notice the zone's existence except with detect magic or similar means.

The sentiment that clerics don't need this on top of all the other overpowered stuff they get says more of that other stuff than about this particular spell.

[Catastrophe]

My biggest gripe with it is that the area it will pull out of stealth is HUGE. It's not accurate to how big the spell actually should be.

[Kaizen]

This I'm not 100% on. I think its perfectly plausible for some to see a sneaker, but others not to.

Most def, until the person who sees the sneaker points them out. It's like Where's Waldo. It's really hard to find Waldo, but once someone does and shows you ... 'aww man, that was so obvious!'.

[Kaeldorn]

My biggest gripe with it is that the area it will pull out of stealth is HUGE. It's not accurate to how big the spell actually should be.

It should be 100 ft radius at level 20. That's pretty big...

Agreed on pointing others out. I personally liked Cornuto's suggestion of temporarily giving a debuff of like -25 to hide. Then, if someone is good enough at hiding (average rolls in the range of 50+, which stupidly enough is reasonably easy to attain..), others still won't see them if they are untrained.

As for bards using inspire competence to improve their sneaking skill, I have only this to say...
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0217.html

[Lothoir]

Zone of Revelation is already a reactionary spell, If a level 20 cleric (full cleric, by the way, not 18 cleric / 2 fighter) extends a Zone of Revelation is will last 40 in game minutes which is equal to 4 real life minutes. 4 minutes of no stealth, that's all. After that you can stealth away to your heart's content and ignore all the cover and light that you want. We're told not to factor the trolls into discussions on how overpowered HiPS is so why are we factoring the trolls into the discussion on Zone of Revelation?

My cleric walks around with at least 4 of these prepared, which are 4 Divine Powers, Recitations, Battletides he doesn't have prepared. He will use one in a blue moon because he knows it won't last forever. Instead he casts alarm spells around himself (2 hours per level) and considers those his early warning system with Zone as the countermeasure.

My casters also have a rest schedule of once per in game day, other than when grinding or making items, which severely limits what spells he goes walking around with and what he casts, knowing that what he casts right now is something he can't cast later. Used responsibly Zone of Revelation is more than fine as it is.

[Philosopher]

I don't think we use game minutes at all. I'm pretty sure 40 minutes is 40 real minutes, like everything else, unless you've noticed differently when using the spell?

[Kaeldorn]

Spell duration

The length of time a spell lasts. Where hours or minutes are used, these are in game time. Where a specific number of rounds are used, it is necessary to multiply by the length of (real) time of those units.

■1 hour in NWN2 defaults to 2 minutes, although can differ from module to module. (6 min for Sundren)
■1 minute in NWN2 is 60 seconds, or 10 rounds
■1 round in NWN2 is 6 seconds

[Cornuto]

40 in game minutes which is equal to 4 real life minutes.

40 IG minutes is 40 IRL minutes. So as I said, its not reactionary.

You can lock down an entire map free of stealth for the better part of an hour if you wanted to.

[Philosopher]

Exactly. That is ridiculous, game-breaking, even metagamey. And it will be done. If it breaks invisibility and etherealness, I could be cool with how it functions now as a preventative. But stealth? No way.

[crazyjerren]

I tend to fall into the 'find it too OP to knock stealthers out' group. Maybe an area effect bonus to listen/spot for allies, making it still a helpful spell in detection - and an area one at that - but still requires some investment in spot/listen. Give the skill whore classes something over the casters that already have a huge edge.

My casters also have a rest schedule of once per in game day, other than when grinding or making items, which severely limits what spells he goes walking around with and what he casts, knowing that what he casts right now is something he can't cast later.

This may be your personal choice, but many people can, and will, just rest at their ten minute mark or go to a 'rest spot' to quickly change up a slot.

Also, I'm assuming because stealth is a hard-coded function that this rule is not implement into the system?

I really like the idea of a feat that can be used to 'point-out' stealthers and applies a negative -25 hide and a -5 to ms (if you can't see them, knowing their direction isn't necessarily going to help you hear them).

[roguethree]

Stealth's way OP on Sundren. Spell should stay as is, or make spot/listen class skills for everyone and put in spot/listen gear.

[Starrizer]

Clerics and FS are overpowered too, but I am not complaining. I will find gear and skillpoints to somehow make up for my lack of awesomeness that way I can fight them.


P.s. - I've never made it past level 15, so don't really account my word as meaning anything xD