PvP - What punishment should exist?

[Ithildur]

That's good stuff Scarlett for RPing death/near death.

As far as the lootable corpses, I have played on several RP servers with this system; I've never seen this be a problem or lead to out of control PvP just because the system was in place. Again if that does start to happen it means some people need to not be here; the fundamental problem then is not the system but that there are players who can't RP responsibly/the playerbase is suspect.

I can see it being a serious problem on non passworded servers where griefers or powergamers pretending to be RPers are prevalent and allowed to go around killing people rampantly to loot their corpses, but I really have faith that Sundren will not be such an environment, especially if we have a password in place and as players get to know each other.

I'll say this: if someone rolls up a bandit/highwayman type of PC and RPs well and occasionally engages in some well RPed banditry which *might* lead to PvP and looting of a corpse, I'm all for it. If an inexperienced adventurer walks around alone and runs into a capable thug he should expect to lose some gold at the very least if he cannot run way, and possibly his life and all possessions. Good reason to travel in groups, and can lead to RP where this bandit is hunted down by a group of capable PCs, and if caught face dire consequences. I think this is good RP as long as some restraint is used; someone placing 20 traps that are undetectable due to NWN2 limitations and killing a dozen PCs that way to loot them all clean is abusing the system.

Regardless, we should not let the possibility of losing our precious swag be the main determining factor in decisions that affect gameplay.

[crazyjerren]

My favorite system involved a corpse token and a fugue where you had to wait your set time before you could respawn. Your body could be picked up and moved by other players or have a raise dead spell cast on it. It could even be brought to an NPC that could raise them at a cost.

In the fugue you were given a bag that you could place items in that another player could take off your corpse. This made it so that if your character had a raise dead scroll on his person, his friends could actually take it off his body and use it. It also allowed for consentual thievery of an item for RP perposes.

With this script it also allowed the "perma dead" scenario to be a little more tolerable by players, always having an NPC that could raise your fallen allies if you could drag their corpse there (the corpse token weighed 150lbs, taking an average between a halfling in leathers, and a half orc in plate).

Over all I tend towards the hardcore aspects of death and even resting. My favorite form of resting is either 8 hour rest with instent rest at Inn's, or set areas for rest only (inn's, camps, 'safe zones in the wild or dungeons').

EDIT: Also this server had a system that, after respawning, you could not gain combat XP for 30 minutes, more or less forcing you to RP. It also applied a temporary level loss for 30 minutes if you respawned or were raised, making your character weak from death.

[Ithildur]

My favorite system involved a corpse token and a fugue where you had to wait your set time before you could respawn. Your body could be picked up and moved by other players or have a raise dead spell cast on it. It could even be brought to an NPC that could raise them at a cost.

In the fugue you were given a bag that you could place items in that another player could take off your corpse. This made it so that if your character had a raise dead scroll on his person, his friends could actually take it off his body and use it. It also allowed for consentual thievery of an item for RP perposes.

With this script it also allowed the "perma dead" scenario to be a little more tolerable by players, always having an NPC that could raise your fallen allies if you could drag their corpse there (the corpse token weighed 150lbs, taking an average between a halfling in leathers, and a half orc in plate).

Over all I tend towards the hardcore aspects of death and even resting. My favorite form of resting is either 8 hour rest with instent rest at Inn's, or set areas for rest only (inn's, camps, 'safe zones in the wild or dungeons').

EDIT: Also this server had a system that, after respawning, you could not gain combat XP for 30 minutes, more or less forcing you to RP. It also applied a temporary level loss for 30 minutes if you respawned or were raised, making your character weak from death.

Those sound like excellent possibilities; most of those sound similar to what I've seen, but the 'consentual looting' actually could be a good idea, again if both sides are mature about handling things.

I'll tell you, this reminds me on ALFA when my PC died and a roguish PC helped rez my body, but had to go through my belongings on my lootable corpse to raise enough gold to pay for the rez, and found a ring that was both pretty useful and had great sentimental value to my PC; this rogue didn't want to give my PC back the ring and I had to do some intense RPing to get it back without resorting to combat (which would've been probably bad for my PC as the rogue was one of the toughest PCs in all of ALFA).

[GodBeastX]

I have been on servers with alternate planes, frankly... me not like it.

While the systems are cool and stuff, sometimes I like to RP out that I didn't actually die completely although I appear dead. The concept that someone dies and gets ressed the number of times they do just is unthinkable really. I think even gods would go "Okay, I Raised you 15 times yesterday, you're done... go to hell."

Not to mention, you get people who come back to life talking about "Oh, I just saw the after life! It's awesome!" When they weren't really in the after life and it's more an OOC tool.

Then there's all the bugs and stuff that come along with it. Making sure corpses spawn if someone logs out dead, etc etc.

[Euniana]

In-game death is where common sense and creative solutions take precedence over D&D mechanics.

You are not necessarily dead when you appear dead on screen, if you choose to RP otherwise and others agree to play along. Respawn does not necessarily equate to a visit to the afterlife and a raise dead/resurrection at the Temple of Helm. Think of creative solutions. Perhaps you just passed out temporarily. Use common sense to your best judgment and play cooperatively with any other PCs that are present.

That said, I won't be too happy with PCs at -24 HP talking like they're just wounded and chilling on the floor. The point is to not trivialize death, be it the actual concept or the in-game mechanic.

[crazyjerren]

I have been on servers with alternate planes, frankly... me not like it.

While the systems are cool and stuff, sometimes I like to RP out that I didn't actually die completely although I appear dead. The concept that someone dies and gets ressed the number of times they do just is unthinkable really. I think even gods would go "Okay, I Raised you 15 times yesterday, you're done... go to hell."

Not to mention, you get people who come back to life talking about "Oh, I just saw the after life! It's awesome!" When they weren't really in the after life and it's more an OOC tool.

Then there's all the bugs and stuff that come along with it. Making sure corpses spawn if someone logs out dead, etc etc.

The fugue plan on the server I spoke of was completely OOC, You spoke with death who told you to not take anything said here IC at all. It also had a viewing orb that played back all text spoken within a distance of your corpse so you knew what was happening around you.
There was also a very annoyin imp, and a bathroom. Why the only bathroom on the server was in the OOC hell.. I couldn't tell you...

[Ethereal Edge]

Because with a fortitude save of 20, you don't need a bathroom. You just let your bladder burst and grow a new one.

[Scarlett]

A hell or area where you wait aside of the OOC Area already in place would be cool. Oo Oo, base it off of Kelemvor's Crystal Spire! :O

[Anks]

I like the current method... if we add penalty's for PVP based death... And rewards for Pking. people will be more intised to PK more often with very poor RP behind it.

[Ethereal Edge]

I'm not suggesting there's rewards for killing folks, I just think the dead people need to roleplay it better.

[Sylvanas_Kathar]

I've read a lot of good suggestions on this thread already. Personally, I'm in favor of implimenting a rest timer regardless of death or location. I've seen people (and I am guilty of it as well) killing one group, resting, then moving on to the next like it was nothing. To me, this seems a little....grindish?

The ideas of an OOC area where you have to go wait seems like a good idea. Think of it as a beurocrats office where you have to wait for the proper "paperwork" of your death to be looked over and such (maybe Jergal's plane? since he's so meticulous). You could still be revived by a cleric or scroll, or have to wait it out.


Also, the idea crazyjerren posted is top noch! Any way to impliment the "corpse token" idea?

[crazyjerren]

...I just think the dead people need to roleplay it better.

Had to lawl at that.

Dead Player: *is dead*
Other Player: ((whoa!!! what an amazing RPer!
Dead Player: *remains dead*
Other Player: ((that is top notch!
Dead Player: *body goes into rigamortis*
Other Player: "His body is looking a little stiff... amazing!"
Dead Player smashs his head against his keyboard in frustration.
Dead Player: "dlaskfhsajfda"
Other Player: ".... Did you hear that? it made a sound!"
Dead Player: ((Oops!

I've felt like that before >.> And this was just a rant of bordom, pay it little attention

[Ethereal Edge]

Actually, on a local vault once I got so tired of people staring at the corpse of my character and prodding it without being able to do anything that I think I managed to fire off an essay about how specifically he was dead, what probably killed him, his expression, his muscles, his skin growing pale, the heat leaving him, etc.

It didn't get me revived.

[Ithildur]

Heh, back on NWNO a few of us bought the farm and were down in the fugue plane and one guy started off shouting out a prayer to his PC's deity... we were all laughing at him thinking it was pretty funny, until suddenly he vanished from sight, apparently resurrected by a DM; within seconds all of us were calling out to our respective PCs' gods as well.

[Akitsuki]

how about a Subdual ModE!!!!! then we can PVP without killing when nessisary


would help with RP... hate it when i kill somebody in 1 hit when i was planning on dragging them off and having my... er i mean interrigating them