Apprehending PCs: How should it be handled?

[Chipmunk]

Stripping a character of all possessions while dead is a bit much, particularly when they haven't actually committed a crime.

PCs shouldn't capture other PCs.
PCs should capture other PCs. DMs should determine repercussions on a case-by-case basis.
PCs should capture other PCs. The captured PC should not face severe repercussions.
PCs should capture other PCs. The captured PC should face severe repercussions.
Other (explain below).

The event you're referring to was overseen by a DM, and therefor not part of this discussion. This is about PC-PC interaction, sans DM.

[greypawn]

I hate this post. If players are mature of enough they can usually deal with things themselves. If not, they'll need a DM. Sometimes they'll need a DM anyways. Done.

[Elusa]

In my opinion, captures should only be done with a DM presiding over the consequences unless the players can both agree on how to RP it. In other words, the winner doesn't automatically get rights to do whatever they want with the captured PC. The only exception is the aforementioned taking of gold or an item.

In general, however, I would support some more strict consequences to PvP. Currently the system boils down to a game of whack-a-mole. Capture actually has more severe consequences than just killing the player, because they can just respawn with a bit of amnesia if killed. This is getting a bit off the rails, but my point is that the consequences for capture should not be more severe than being killed.

At the end of the day, I agree with greypawn. Players should be mature enough to be able to reach an agreement on how to handle the situation. Done properly, this results in a more rich roleplaying experience without hand holding by DMs. Done poorly, it fosters OOC hostility and ruins the RP experience.

[blurry89]

I'll just say that no person wants to spend 6-12 months on their evil PC gaining rep and going through channels and gathering gold to get that sweet faction item only to have Dain Tornbrook one shot them with epic smite and have their brand new toy tossed into the Triumvirate Holy Oven.

Likewise, same for good PCs.

Likewise, same for anyone that doesn't powerbuild their PC (IE, any mundane) only to lose to a Favored Soul/Cleric/Sorc/Wiz etc and etc.

Instead of focusing on the material penalties of losing in PvP, there should be more political, social and religious consequences. Capture among them.

Or, you know, make PvP not as important as everyone makes it out to be.

As it stands now, it seems, that any and all arguements or conflicts boils down to who has the better internet connection, the better gear, and the horribly cheesed out build. Might makes right, or whatever.

If an action world server with RP undertones is what Sundren is going for, than please ignore the above.

[Standur]

Ok peeps here's a thought, why don't we just do what is fun!

Personally outside of a DM session I will never ask a player for an item. I don't want your gems or your uber faction goodies. What do I want? When I am playing Ryland I do want the chance to catch you breaking the law. I do want to challenge your PC on it. I do want to PvP your evil azz PC. I want to play my faction. If everyone is so afraid of losing stuff then the faction conflicts aren't ever going to happen. I may RP taking your boots to make you walk barefooted to Sundren but all I really expect is for you to put them in your inventory and give me a few stags and we can call it a day and all I ask is the same courtesy from you when you haul my PC's back to your cliche evil lair.

Fun! Relax and have some.

[Talleyman99]

Capture can be hit or miss, Im more of the capture for the short term rp when your done be done with the player let them go about there lives. If it's something that needs to be more then maybe have the attention of the dm's. Lord knows when I was hot on Bram We didn't have jail keys we could not take you to jail So it was, listen to my harsh warning Or we get in a scuffle and baddie gets away/ died. Now I play the Evil Grannpire, I walk around looking for Rp, I normally run into a holy man... well as the good black guard it's my duty to poke at you and goad you into a fight, that said I always have subdue checked I want to subdue you. Why? So I can kneel over your beaten form and gloat tell you how colibrus is good and rp then let you go. No need for death, you get to remember, no death mind wipe silliness also you get to build vendettas, want revenge and so forth way more fun then death, and or dragging you back to the vampire cave and holding you there as a prisoner what fun is that really?

[Root]

A 'capture' RP session should only extend to the time that all players currently have. I've seen too many a-server where people will capture someone and lock them up in a faction area of some kind, only to be stuck there for real life weeks on end, coming in and failing to be able to get in contact with faction members or DM's due to their own timezone and such.

Let the PC go, and in return, the captured PC should respect the fact that they got truly beat down and lie low for a little while, not immediately returning to standard business.

[Twisted-Indoctrine]

I'd say case by case basis. In general I'm with Talleyman's interpretation of PvP and capture in general, after reading it. I think people are simply TOO inclined to kill other people when it often is more rewarding to allow the situation to become a case of "You're alive, not because you can be or through any virtue of your own being, but because I ALLOW it to be so." (Or in the case of good guys "You're alive not because yada yada same crap, but because in spite of you we have hope eternal we can break you and make you see the light." Post Edit: This oddly enough seems more horrifying than the bad guys)

That said...

There are cases where repercussions ought be more severe. The above would describe PvP between two dudes meeting one another for the first time figuring out they can't stand each other for whatever reason and then merrily hammering the hell out of each other until one lies beaten. This would not, and I think should not be the case for mortal foes - high ranking members of diametrically opposed factions (most famously BH and AA (with their twelve step program to righteous reform), and Ebon Coin and Legion).

If such persons were to encounter and capture another I would argue that yes, DM resolution should be called upon. Dain being captured, or hell, Clive being confined to his lair/sarcophagus/whatever, would be a pretty notable event for example. And that's just the biggest most obvious example I can think of. There's plenty of lesser known characters with as much animosity towards factions/other individuals who I think would warrant as much attention from a DM.

It's going to come down to discretion, and I'd say if either player feels the need to contact a DM for resolution that should be encouraged. And I'd argue also the DM's study the situation carefully as well with particular emphasis on figuring out with it's a character or meta-game issue that needs to be resolved (that is to say is it a "We need a bit of help figuring out where to go from here as characters" request or is it a "This douche bag has been holding my character and RL time hostage for two and half hours yammering about moralistic crap in a make belief world, please help" request).

In the end it's a touchy and controversial part of PvP, but it's a pretty damned important one as it adds RP depth and as such should stay. It just needs to be handled responsibly by all parties involved. That and people need to do what Bill and Ted said and just "Be excellent to each other."

[Mournas]

DMs with PCs handling the events of other PCs captured? No ... it is just stupid ... Capturing PCs should go away. Too much meta gaming and other BS to go along with this. I for know that I don't even want to make a character that gets involved with things because I know what happens. Necromancers with undead appendages who killed someone walk free and assault ends up with permadeath situations. Either way the idea is bogus.

[roguethree]

Permed because sold out his own faction, not "assault." Inb4 lolz.

Rise, rise from the dead, months-old thread, and walk this earth with terror in your gaze!

[Doubtful]

*Loads a shotgun up with banishment rounds*

Going against the server restrictions despite being warned about them and the consequences isn't something to whine about.

You baked the cake, don't whine about the flavour.

[Mournas]

Permed because sold out his own faction, not "assault." Inb4 lolz.

Rise, rise from the dead, months-old thread, and walk this earth with terror in your gaze!

Yet the legion would of perma killed me also. So either way I was dead, I just bought an extra day of time?

[Catastrophe]

The rules about betraying a faction are clearly labelled on the wiki, and it is known that permadeath is something that can happen on the server.

Let's not try to rehash drama that is done and over with, k?

[Vaelek]

Let's not try to rehash drama that is done and over with, k?

But it's so funny!

Please, Mournas. Go on.
I find your tale of unjust persecution to be simply riveting.

[Mournas]

Myth is dead, that is over and done with, I care not of his death any more. Although capturing PCs may lead to some good RP there is too much of a variable on the outcome. The rules should be set in stone so there is no ambiguity about the circumstances. Make it severe, make it soft, which ever you choose ... but make it apply to EVERYONE.