Apprehending PCs: How should it be handled?

[[DM] Grinning Death]

I'd have to agree with most things that Chiangtao and Inflatablefriend have mentioned. Rep is far too easily gained by using the boxes, as there's no limit to how much you can donate. If the old limitation was put in (something like you can only donate up to 75k total) were re-implemented, I could see them having a use for people to gain up to a middling rank in their faction, with the higher ranks only available to those who participate beyond gold farming.

As for the rest, it'd take some doing on the staff's part to develop the 'rules' that would be required for the kind of system that you're talking about, something I have little knowledge about, haha.

As far as the cheapness of death and failure, I can certainly start making my events have more of a penalizing aspect to them, if asked to do so.

[Standur]

As far as the cheapness of death and failure, I can certainly start making my events have more of a penalizing aspect to them, if asked to do so.

More penalizing than the possibility of perma-death?

[Lucidity]

More penalizing than the possibility of perma-death?

I thought about that, too..

[Chiangtao]

Bah get real... yes permadeath is always on the table but it is rarely exercised. I think he is commenting on the majority of his non epic events when in practice it just doesn't happen.

[Kitsunestume]

Originally Posted by InflatableFriend
Outlaw factions can do what they want, either working for other groups or following their own agenda.

We do anyway

Originally Posted by InflatableFriend
1. Clearly define which groups have the powers of arrest in what areas

I dig this idea in some ways, but not in others. A bad guy could walk into a Legion outpost and defeat everyone to capture a soldier PC. However, I like the flavor of it - create a faction-based battleground environment. Reduce the number of factions overall (population is dwindling) and pit folks against one another more often.

I definitely think it would be useful to know who has justistiction over a particular area, in both actuality and theory, and have the ability to seize control of a particular location. However, I see a battle-ground type of environment to be almost counterproductive: if the Exigo tradepost becomes a killing-ground, they would move elsewhere. An idea I had was possibly using someting like the companion-influence mechanic in the OC, where each faction has a rating in a particular area between -100 and 100, and could be adjusted by DM events or whatever, and affect the attitudes of NPCs in that area, like slight discounts/markups or whatever, in addition to determining juristiction. Require capture of locations based of attrition, rather than a single momentus event with law held in place only through brute force (not that this system wouldn't allow for it).

I think the number of factions is fine, as most seem to have a core group to each, even with the numbers of charachters who don't have a stalwart allegiance.

[[DM] Grinning Death]

Bah get real... yes permadeath is always on the table but it is rarely exercised. I think he is commenting on the majority of his non epic events when in practice it just doesn't happen.

I'm toying with a 'hardmode' for events, where the amount of xp and gold you can generate is doubled, but failing results in a loss of both.

But yes, Chiangtao is correct.

[InflatableFriend]

I definitely think it would be useful to know who has justistiction over a particular area, in both actuality and theory, and have the ability to seize control of a particular location. However, I see a battle-ground type of environment to be almost counterproductive: if the Exigo tradepost becomes a killing-ground, they would move elsewhere. An idea I had was possibly using someting like the companion-influence mechanic in the OC, where each faction has a rating in a particular area between -100 and 100, and could be adjusted by DM events or whatever, and affect the attitudes of NPCs in that area, like slight discounts/markups or whatever, in addition to determining juristiction. Require capture of locations based of attrition, rather than a single momentus event with law held in place only through brute force (not that this system wouldn't allow for it).

I like the idea of being able to influence areas, but I was thinking more along personal lines.

Each PC has a value rep for each of the main world factions from the Mossclaw Alliance through to the Veritas Rebellion. The starting amount of rep with non-hostile groups varies from 0 through to several thousand.

I'd suggest levelling that off to a flat starting 500 with every faction, then creating a list of basic ranks that can be checked against before sliding into the actual membership rep scores. Something like

-1 or less = Hostile
0-50 = Wanted for crimes by faction
51-150 = Disliked
151-300 = Tollerated
301-600 = Indifferent
601-750 = Appreciated
751-999 = Liked
1000+ = Employee rankings

That way players and DMs alike (assuming DMs have a quick way to check a players rep score) can see where they stand with a faction and adjust the situation to suit.

This can easily be used to adjust the outcome of being captured by a particular group.

Bob the Burgler is a Junior member (1800) of the Eboncoin, he's been in a series of events where he's gone out of his way to be seen to help Exigo and Blackwood, so much so that they consider him more valuble than some of their basic wage-slaves (1200). However, in doing so he has upset Exigos biggest competitor the Thayans (50) so much that they've placed an internal misdemenour level bounty on him. Bob gets caught out when a heist goes wrong and he accidentally kills the home owner, the Legion (20) put out a bounty for him.

Bob has a few choices. He could go hide with the Cartel, but that means passing through Thayan territory and risking being caught by them and suffering two bounties and a high consiquences. He could act normally and hope for the best, or he could turn himself in on Exigo territory and burn some of his rep in order to get a lesser penalty or the Legion bounty overturned.

For more serious crimes high rep could be used to pay guards to look the other way or arrange for prisoner transport to be ambushed and so on.

A further idea could be allowing players to spend faction rep in order to buy off a warrent from another faction.

A member of the Black Hand might be able to spend rep by exerting political influence on Legion insiders, getting his wanted status revoked, but loosing face in the eyes of his comrades.
A member of the Arbiters Alliance might be able to get a favour from a lowly urchin seeking attonement in order to get a stay of exicution from the Cartel. And so on.

Being able to spend rep would give it much more use than simply being able to put on better gear.

[Kitsunestume]

-1 or less = Hostile
0-50 = Wanted for crimes by faction
51-150 = Disliked
151-300 = Tollerated
301-600 = Indifferent
601-750 = Appreciated
751-999 = Liked
1000+ = Employee rankings

It's a good scale, but ony when compared to other PCs: the standard 'Hostile' factions, like Chartel and Black Hand could end up being pretty messed up. Most people don't have a price on their head from either faction before heading to the Necropolis or Dead Man's Trail, but they need to be hostile with mobs there if the intent is to, say, uphold the law. I suppose one way to circumvent that would to have rep with the relevant faction drop by 750 points or so, but that might present problems of it's own, if they arn't given back afterwards or suddenly demote actual members of that faction.

[FoogooFish]

Just found this thread, and since I'm protesting doing work on a rainy Friday, I thought I'd add my two stags.

I've wanted cash4rep (as Inflatable so humorously and appropriately called it) gone for well over a year now. Commissions could be purchased, but they would require DM involvement and actual RP. Few things irk me more on Sundren than buying rep!

Martial law makes complete sense RP-wise, but as a player of a Legionnaire, martial law is a pain in the rear. Players don't like it and complain OOC. Characters don't like it and complain IC simply because Sundren is really the USA and everyone has constitutional rights (or so it is believed.) I don't think there is really a solution to this issue, as PC law enforcement has been detested for as long as I have been been playing games with other people.

That said, let me actually address the question posed in this poll - how should PC capture be handled. I don't want to see PC captures disappear, because some of my fondest RP memories and the development of my character stemmed from bad guys being bad. The solution I have used as a Legionnaire has been (ironically, to me) an off-shoot of what I do IRL: probation. Assign fines (tangible punishment,) require regular meetings (prompts RP,) and systematically escalate if infractions continue. Use jail time sparingly, and let people buy their way out of jail. Players don't like jail even if it makes sense for characters. All the rogues can use their likely high INT to avoid getting caught, which to me is what criminals are supposed to do - wreak havoc in a way that prevents law enforcement / Team Good from really doing anything, because the high moral compass will prevent us from going on a killing spree.

I don't play Team Evil, but I think the reverse can be done for them as well. Capture someone and ransom him or her back to the Goodies. Don't just ask for stags. Get yourselves some gems and supplies. You know someone has a King's Tear. Threaten to cut off a finger. Anyone familiar with The Big Lebowski? Get one of your NPC henchmen to cut off her own toe and send it wrapped in silk bandages to show that you mean business. There is some type of items that DMs can make... stat and skill reducers... that can be temporary or permanent. If you're caught and get your toe cut off, you take a -1 Dex until you get seen by a cleric. Etc.

Ultimately, I think that these sort of things should have some modicum of DM involvement. Consequences only work if they're consistently enforced.I know our hard-working DMs can't be everywhere, but even a "hey, we're going to snag this newb that seems to be friendly with some of the Legionnaires and try to ransom her" heads-up gives the staff an idea of what twists and turns they can add. (But please... please please please... stop letting everyone escape jail by 1) sleeping with / seducing a guard, 2) throwing a rock down the hall to distract the guard, 3) having someone tunnel overnight into the thick stone walls of the jail, 4) etc. I can't really say IC, "Well, all these guys are idiots" that many times. )

[Kitsunestume]

All the rogues can use their likely high INT to avoid getting caught, which to me is what criminals are supposed to do - wreak havoc in a way that prevents law enforcement / Team Good from really doing anything, because the high moral compass will prevent us from going on a killing spree.
[. . .]
(But please... please please please... stop letting everyone escape jail by 1) sleeping with / seducing a guard, 2) throwing a rock down the hall to distract the guard, 3) having someone tunnel overnight into the thick stone walls of the jail, 4) etc. I can't really say IC, "Well, all these guys are idiots" that many times. )

We need more people going to jail. It gives me more opportunities to try to break into jail again and give our local blond deputy more headaches!

[Thief Of Navarre]

Definately up for more people being responsible for their crimes. Yes its a game; but all good (criminal) things have to come to an end eventually

[Aniril_Telin]

Stripping a character of all possessions while dead is a bit much, particularly when they haven't actually committed a crime.

[Doubtful]

Inventory stripping shouldn't be happening, a player is entitled to take either all of your current gold or a single item. Nothing more.

If a player asks for more than that then politely refuse and cite the rules (The key here being polite).

[FoogooFish]

Let me clarify this situation, as I don't think all the information is being provided.

When the dead bodies were brought to the jail, items were roleplayed as being removed and stored so that if the attempted raises were successful, there would be no "lol I pull out my dagger that I have hidden in my boot and stab you all to death with it!" Prisoners (or potential prisoners) aren't allowed to keep possessions. That's just common sense.

If the DM involved and monitoring the incident took your items, then that was his call. To my knowledge, no PC ever had all of anyone's items.

[Doubtful]

Roleplaying the removal of all items is fine and dandy. Captured people should probably consider themselves stripped and disarmed. The Legion is hardly going to throw people in jail with all of their kit, same goes for other hostage takers. The BH is hardly going to let Mr Righteous sit around awaiting torture still clad in shiny armour with a Holy Avenger on his hip.