Revisit of PVP - What should it be?

[Bindragon]

There is merit to the frustration of solo play on this server. You may choose to be a loner as a characteristic of your PC, but for some of us who rarely get on at peak hours, we have little choice. Yes, there may be a handful of people on at the time, but it doesn't mean they want you in your party, or feel obligated to have you join, or that you are compatible at all. Much like in real life, people have clicks in this game. I simply find myself choosing to log off having done nothing because it's not worth dangerously chasing down a group of unknowns trying to lobby for acceptance. It also seems lame to send a tell to a DM begging them to play with me. I have yet to have a DM initiate anything with me when I'm alone (that I know of), so I'm assuming that is not their function on this server (nor do I assume it should be).

So, even though I am for absolute realism and that death should be feared, permadeath certainly should only be considered from PvP, only after a certain character level, and only after Subdual is implemented. No xp loss or gain should occur.

I'm assuming that eventually all of the characters will reach Level 20 unless PvP'd. I would motion that when Level 20 is reached, if that character should die at all, by PvP and NPC, that he/she is forever killed unless resurrected. That would avoid having immortal stiffs that never go away, still add some tension to playing the character at these ridiculously high levels, and a way to have closure. Maybe create a headstone for those Level 20ers killed in action as a memorial.

Nobody lives forever.

[GDwarf]

First off, I never liked removing challenge ratings. I know people use it to metagame, but it also has IG justification. Your average petty thug is going to be able to tell the difference between a green adventurer and a battle-hardened warrior, without CR he is incapable of doing so.

It essentially means that my level 3 fencer with one, small, scar will appear to have been through exactly as many battles as that level 20 Barbarian over there who can't open his right eye and is missing half of his teeth.

The plus side is that, because of that, my guy is about as likely to be picked on as that Barbarian.

As for permanent death, I dislike it, it makes it far too easy to exploit the system. What would work is harsher XP penalties, make someone lose a level or two and change their place on the XP curve so that their current level is where the curve thinks they're supposed to be.

Okay, before I respond, first, you are dead until someone raises you. You are in your body, someone uses something to bring you back, it's all good. Scroll, spell, etc. You're not wiped from the vault, you're not perm'd and no way back.

In many cases it amounts to the same thing. Should, for example, my PC be griefed I'm in trouble, I don't have any IG friends who'd pay to have me rez'd, my character will be permanently dead.

If nothing else respawning at a very heavy penalty should be an option. If you don't like XP loss, then how about you lose all the gold in your inventory, or some such?


Essentially these changes are great if your PC has lots of friends, but if they're fairly new then they're in trouble. I just have these images of people in the middle of nowhere being ambushed, killed, and then laying there for hours waiting for a res that never happens, eventually they quit their char in disgust, because no one is going to actually show up, and if they do they aren't going to help them.

[Elusa]

I think stricter experience penalties would be a seriously bad idea. It punishes the victims of PvP more than the attacker. Also, since you can't lose levels from experience penalties, attackers get free reign if they just recently leveled up.

Perma death and no CR ratings is the way to go. Realism is the best part. If you're intent on going alone, you risk dying alone with no rez. Sorry all you loners, but that's the penalty for traveling alone. Don't go alone, don't go into distant areas alone, or you risk perma death.

In addition, attackers can never be certain if their targets are more powerful than them. This is how it would be, if people didn't metagame. For once, PvPers won't have that option, and they will actually risk something.

And the best part: this particular scenario doesn't happen.

A: But... You died yesterday!
B: ... I got better.

[GDwarf]

I think stricter experience penalties would be a seriously bad idea. It punishes the victims of PvP more than the attacker. Also, since you can't lose levels from experience penalties, attackers get free reign if they just recently leveled up.

Fair enough.

Perma death and no CR ratings is the way to go. Realism is the best part. If you're intent on going alone, you risk dying alone with no rez. Sorry all you loners, but that's the penalty for traveling alone. Don't go alone, don't go into distant areas alone, or you risk perma death.

So, that's it then. "I'm sorry, there were only three people on the server, one of them wanted to kill you and the other didn't know you, so you're permanently dead."

or, better yet:

"Sorry you're new character got killed by that griefer, but since he has no IG friends I guess you'll just have to start over!"

In addition, attackers can never be certain if their targets are more powerful than them. This is how it would be, if people didn't metagame. For once, PvPers won't have that option, and they will actually risk something.

I agree that they'd have no idea exactly how powerful other people were, but you could get a rough idea. Honestly, someone who has stared dragons in the eye and walked away is going to have a totally different bearing then someone who runs in fear from a goblin.

And the best part: this particular scenario doesn't happen.

A: But... You died yesterday!
B: ... I got better.

Something does need to be done about that, though I honestly have no idea what, since people are opposed to XP penalties and I hate the idea of involuntary perma-death. I play Sundren to relax and have fun, not to loose days (months, even) worth of character development and then get told "tough luck."

[CrimsonTears]

Uh... you people really should read back on the thread.
Especially GodBeastX's posts.

[Elusa]

Sorry if some of this is repeats, I just didn't have time to read 10 pages of posts to see if something I say was already said.

GDwarf, I realize it would be a harsh system, but it's not for PvE deaths, and ganking isn't nearly as common as on other servers. Plus the DMs are forgiving, especially to newbies.

[CrimsonTears]

No, not because of that.

Because there will be no perma-death. All there is to it is if you're killed in PvP you need to be raised or ressurrected.

Also, CRs are going to be taken, period. You can't know how experienced someone is just from looking. People can fake, both for better and for worse. The guy flexing and snarling at you might be a level 1 and the quiet passive guy in the corner might be able to kill you with a heavier sigh.

[GDwarf]

No, not because of that.

Because there will be no perma-death. All there is to it is if you're killed in PvP you need to be raised or ressurrected.

As I keep saying, in many cases the difference is minimal.

Also, CRs are going to be taken, period. You can't know how experienced someone is just from looking. People can fake, both for better and for worse. The guy flexing and snarling at you might be a level 1 and the quiet passive guy in the corner might be able to kill you with a heavier sigh.

Mostly agreed, actually.


Edit: Actually, how about the option of either waiting to be rez'd, or to respawn but, say, lose a level. That way the people with friends aren't punished by losing PvP, but it's also not possible to just lose a character.

[undeadsteak]

anyways, theres barely any time where theres 3 people on the server, so yah!