Update - Max Level

[Machiavelli]

Firstly, properly on topic; I'm all for a rebalance if the devs think it neccesary. It's a Beta after all. From what Saulus said this is mainly about server balance and not about people grinding. However, it's turned into a discussion of grinding once again. So... moving to a sort-of-on-topic discussion.

I'd rather not get into this debate with you again, Mal, but whatever...

I'm afraid you brought it into the thread, and additionally squashed that guy pretty hard back there, so I gotta respond *shrugs*

Now that it is entirely possible to level purely through RP at a reasonable pace, there is no necessity to going to dungeons any longer unless you have an IC reason to.

Your primary point here is that the auto-rp-xp thingy removes the need for anyone to go to dungeons if they want to obtain levels, and that it is somehow "WRONG" to go to dungeons for experience now. The distinction between "before rp-xp" and "after rp-xp" only really exists if people are online alot. Consider the following *gets out calculator*

lvl 3-10: 233 hours (10 days) online

Most people will never spend that long online in their entire time playing Sundren, whether they might like to or not.

Or, less realistically.

Lvl 3-20: 1,038 hours (43 days) online

Well, it should be hard to get to level twenty I suppose

Three points here. 1) Actually, most people will have to kill monsters for xp if they want to go up levels (though they might have all sorts of other reasons for doing so). 2) People wanting to go up levels is fine, and understandable. 3) I'm in full agreement that mega-grinding type activity to level quickly isn't so cool, but if the level cap gets reworked then people won't be able to shoot up levels that way anyhow!

[Leevoth]

It seems that the problem is that the level cap is mainly designed to affect high level characters.

This is about an upcoming rebalance of our new Max Level Cap to affect existing highlevel players (around 15+ level).

But it seems to end up affecting every character, low, mid , and high.

[Xanderleo]

I think you may find how it affects you a little more easy then, say, how it will affect me.

I have a high level character and I can't say I'll be happy if he loses levels.

[Sammael]

Because, for one, many people enjoy it--afterall, that's why many people play videogames, so they can get the rush of graphical violence and kill stuff without any risk to themselves. It's why games like Half Life 2 (which I feel was an incredibly boring and dull game) are considered great games, because of their amount of constant and well done violent gameplay. People on RP servers are no different, most like combat just as much as anyone else and don't mind if it's not entirely realistic that their character has no fear of it, because, hey, guess what, they can't really die unless they want to. It's also a chance to play the hero of the story.

Others simply like the idea of exploring, finding new things, getting new loot, all the while interacting with other people. This kind of sentiment can be both IC and OOC.

Others, feel it is the only way to advance their character. As I have said, even the most cowardly thief cannot be better at stealth without going through dungeons in the Dungeons and Dragons system. Thankfully, RP experience gives these players a choice in the matter.

Fine. I'm confused though as to what you think is -wrong- with people liking combat on an rp server. Surely, if they were on the server purely for the combat, they would have instead joined a combat server instead? There are plenty of IC reasons someone could shrug off killing a lot of monsters and occasionally people in combat; one is that in the medieval setting of Toril, people are likely to have a different mindset towards killing and fighting, as they did in the middle ages.

[XWinterWolfX]

I'd first like to start with that anyone who takes offense from this post will probably be the ones I'm refering to.

I've started here and had two characters. Both of which have been of slightly less than good Alignment. In terms of dealing with other players I've noticed that the players who have been around the longest have become cold and harsh to the fact that newer players have something to offer. Perhaps if those people decided to incorporate a few new people they'd find RP moves forward more smoothly, and that they enjoy things more themselves.

This ties into the level cap/balance in that most of the newer players feel shunned and ignored by the higher levels because they don't have the items, stats, or skills to compete or gain any small amount of attention to themselves. Perhaps I'm somewhat more aggressive on the topic because I'm more familiar with a more friendly environment when it comes to people remembering that it's a game and that there is another person sitting behind each character. So when you have the smart idea of completly ignoring someone when it's obvious they are putting some effort into getting RP started with your level 15+ character, don't ignore them flat out because they don't powerlevel or rush to gain levels so that they can have all of the gear or skills to impress you. It's not considered a polite thing to over-emphasize the fact that someone can't necessarily back up all the things their character does. Just the RP itself can provide some very good stories and backdrops to make it more enjoyable for each player.

As for making dungeous harder and more difficult to level, I say that there should be some work done on the amount of XP you gain with the level differance. When you have to always find people around your level it becomes a game of who here is my level and how do I convince them to go along with me? Becomes less about how can I get involved with some of the existing players and have my character get to know them? So if it were a perfect world I'd say that cutting the level cap to fit the amount of time you've played without having an xp decrease because of level differance would allow for a more wide-assortment of playing styles, and give everyone some of what they want. I understand that my notion of what's a good idea may be somewhat unorthodox because I'm not the DM staff who has to take into consideration the impact of high level characters on Sundren. So I'm sure what ever decision is made will be the proper one and we'll all come to accept it.

Just my two cents on things.

~Winter

[wangxiuming]

I'd first like to start with that anyone who takes offense from this post will probably be the ones I'm refering to.

I've started here and had two characters. Both of which have been of slightly less than good Alignment. In terms of dealing with other players I've noticed that the players who have been around the longest have become cold and harsh to the fact that newer players have something to offer. Perhaps if those people decided to incorporate a few new people they'd find RP moves forward more smoothly, and that they enjoy things more themselves.

This ties into the level cap/balance in that most of the newer players feel shunned and ignored by the higher levels because they don't have the items, stats, or skills to compete or gain any small amount of attention to themselves. Perhaps I'm somewhat more aggressive on the topic because I'm more familiar with a more friendly environment when it comes to people remembering that it's a game and that there is another person sitting behind each character. So when you have the smart idea of completly ignoring someone when it's obvious they are putting some effort into getting RP started with your level 15+ character, don't ignore them flat out because they don't powerlevel or rush to gain levels so that they can have all of the gear or skills to impress you. It's not considered a polite thing to over-emphasize the fact that someone can't necessarily back up all the things their character does. Just the RP itself can provide some very good stories and backdrops to make it more enjoyable for each player.

~Winter

If my character has been guilty of this, I want to apologize deeply. I try to acknowledge everybody, but it gets difficult when there are 20 people to interact with at the same time at the exigo post campfire.

[Satoshi]

It feels like I'm reading an exerpt from 'The Rise of Hitler'. Just saying. In all honesty- I'll keep my comments to myself, and just see the course of development for myself before I throw my stones. And then, even if it's undeserved, slip a dagger into the concept's ribs. Because I love you all so much. Now, if everyone is done with the RP vs. PVE extremist bullcrap, I think this thread has blown the subject completely out of context.

[Kaldaris]

It feels like I'm reading an exerpt from 'The Rise of Hitler'. Just saying. In all honesty- I'll keep my comments to myself, and just see the course of development for myself before I throw my stones. And then, even if it's undeserved, slip a dagger into the concept's ribs. Because I love you all so much. Now, if everyone is done with the RP vs. PVE extremist bullcrap, I think this thread has blown the subject completely out of context.

Seconded, also, no staff has actually revealed exactly what's going to happen, people might not lose levels, or they may, all in all it's still a roleplaying server, you can roleplay at level one or thirty.

[Machiavelli]

Now, if everyone is done with the RP vs. PVE extremist bullcrap, I think this thread has blown the subject completely out of context.

Yeah, I'm probably guilty on the derailing score (though I didn't think I said anything extremist! ).

As for the rebalancing; some people are obviously concerned about what might be going to happen in terms of losing levels (which hasn't actually been stated anyway as Kaldaris says). I say to you this; At least it's not a vault wipe! Some of us have been through one of those for the sake of server balance/continuity and so forth, and I will happily state that such a thing can only be worse than whatever is being planned to acheive similar ends! Just remember, things could always be worse (happy thoughts, I know )

[rustediron]

Hmm... personally, I bought this game to have fun. There are two crucial points here: fun and game. I RP because I find that fun also. PvE is also quite fun if you have a party (though PvP is immensely more fun .

Now when Rhifox complains about treating going out grinding as a game, I am thinking - well, to be fair it IS a game, and there are people behind these characters that are here to have fun. If you treated everything realistically, you'd just be left with normal life in a Faerun setting... which isn't really roleplaying at all.

Hmm... I started this post thinking I had something to say, but now that I write stuff and then delete it again, I find I'm left with comparatively little.

Anyway, the level cap is, as many people have been saying, is for balance. If you are above your level cap, it doesn't mean your a grinder, it means that you're above the level the devs here want you to be. So how well it functions as an grinding detterent is largely irrelevant.

EDIT: Also, DIE JOSEPHINE/KALDARIS/HLAINE DIE! I want to see you suffer! I want to see you moderate again, while I lord over you with my 3 month old character! MWAHAHAHAHHAHAHA
Yes, this is in the name of fun too

[Krya Flacongrace]

I may be the odd one out here, I wouldn't mind losing a few levels from Tim, cos then I can correct a mistake I made when I was lvl'ing up awhile ago and still keep Him and his equipment Without remaking him, reestablishing him within the community

So all in all I'm looking forward to this, and yeah a server vault wipe would put everyone on a level playing field but... it just seems wrong... It takes away the fundamentals of life... someone is always strong, more powerful than you ... and that in itself is a humbling thing .

[Kaldaris]

I may be the odd one out here, I wouldn't mind losing a few levels from Tim, cos then I can correct a mistake I made when I was lvl'ing up awhile ago and still keep Him and his equipment Without remaking him, reestablishing him within the community

Yes well; In my earnest opinion, the only thing I'm going to dread if I happen to lose levels is all the spells I've accumulated, because I'm an active trader and supplier of scrolls. :P

[rustediron]

Dammit Kaldaris, just gimme that disjunction xD

[Krya Flacongrace]

Yes well; In my earnest opinion, the only thing I'm going to dread if I happen to lose levels is all the spells I've accumulated, because I'm an active trader and supplier of scrolls. :P

There is that, but then again you can always be the buyer

[Xanderleo]

So when you have the smart idea of completly ignoring someone when it's obvious they are putting some effort into getting RP started with your level 15+ character, don't ignore them flat out because they don't powerlevel or rush to gain levels so that they can have all of the gear or skills to impress you. It's not considered a polite thing to over-emphasize the fact that someone can't necessarily back up all the things their character does.

Hey now, I didn't ignore you, I threatened you!

If a random guy walks up to the fire and says "WELL MET! ... HAHAHA!" *waves* ... you can't expect everyone just stand up, walk over, and trade life histories.

I guess I should stop posting off topic.

--

Trust me I am thankful there isn't a server wipe, but it doesn't mean I'll be happy if I happen to lose exp my character has gained either.

Regardless, I won't be complaining about it or leaving the server over it. I'm afraid you're all going to be stuck with me.