XP Rate and XP Modifier

[tomatopastemoose]

yah ill just end up moving to a better rp server, have a good one

[Kokobunji]

RP with 80 level 20's is no fun either
Alexei: "Rawr Im strong!"
Some newbie: "Me too!"
Alexei: "that cat is level 20 aswell..."
Some Newb: "HES MY ARCH RIVALORZ!"
then I log off due to the fact that I slit my own throat

personally I think that their should be DM removable level caps aswell ontop of this so a character cant get past level 5, 10, 15 and 19 with out means of RP and a DM quest. Thats just me, cus then in 5 months everyone wont be level 20... they'll be inbetween.

[Cheatcake]

I'm against DM enforced level caps. Strongly. Utterly. Absolutelly. Because in two weeks it becomes a mess of people complaining of favoritism, be it true or not "Good" and "bad" RP is something very subjective, leaving it up to people to decide if you're "good enough" is a bad bad choice :/

[Kokobunji]

Well there can be groups of people in the quest, if people werent so hung up on exp it'd work..

[GodBeastX]

wow seems you didnt really listen to what I had to say, its not about how fast I gain a level its that I -CAN- gain a level, I love that its a roleplay server but last time I checked.. its a game... and Im sorry but a game cant be all roleplay , there has to be a fun factor to the gameplay... alls the xp curve does is makes people create several other low level characters so they can still feel accomplished by getting some sort of level ( and dont tell me it doesnt cause Ive seen a buuuuuuutload of lowbies lately) ... and Im sorry but Im a HUGE rp player, the only reason why I even bought this game, but I find alot more RP satisfaction in playing the same character all the time... and its just not fun to play the same character all the time, cause as soon as theres no RP to participate in the server is boring... I wasnt in any hurry to get to level 7, but now that Im there theres nowhere else to go until my curve gets better, so theres no point in playing the Character unless theres alot of roleplay going on...which for quite a bit of the time there isnt, infact the majority of the time the server doesnt even have nearly 10 people on.... so yah, I guess Im reallly concerned with how fast I level
... sinse...
I said -nothing - of the sort in the 4 or more posts Ive made.... I simply expressed that unless theres roleplay going on your server is pointless to play on if your c is highly effected by the xp curve, and everyone can only shoot out little one liners going omg ur a power gamer ooo, when infact im the total opposite, but rp isnt everything, sinse it doesnt go on when theres only 6 people in the server, and if it does, its very limited, and after... there is nothing to do... which makes the game not fun at that moment, which makes me log, but i guess its a great excuse that every time someone tries to show constructive critisism to the game that everyone just claims theyre a powergamer and discredits what they say...yah, i see people cant take any kind of critisism around here... cause in server, Ive met QUITE a few people who share those sentiments and just arent posting them on the forum... and to say they arent Rpers isnt very... intelligent sinse u have to submit a bio just to join the server.... I have seen noone who doesnt RP to a good degree...but its still a game

I'm having a great deal of trouble following your thoughts, which may attest to why Saulus replied as he did. Try capitols, punctuation, and proper separation of ideas. Nobody is perfect, but if I make a sentence like:

"so i think wow this guys is here doing that what?"

I can't very well expect people to follow what I'm saying.

Now, I suspect you are one of the individuals who voted for 2 months to level 20. Am I correct? The previous curve was based around that, but people voted they wanted it moved to 5 months. I did just that. The reason the poll came up to begin with is people were complaining they were getting too much experience (I can't lie, it made me feel happy to hear it).

I personally come from a server where there is no curve and you basically always get 4 - 10 exp a kill no matter what you do. There is no DM attention with events and such so you wind up never getting DM experience. I was level three for 3 months. However, I can see a HUGE difference in the player base in complete truth. Where players on those servers basically invented all sorts of things to do and had ingenuity, players seem to have trouble finding a direction for their characters without the grind on Sundren (Not everyone, some of you are quite skilled at this).

Alot of people on Sundren claim they want to RP and cite all these instances where they RP'd, but they think RP is just sitting around chit chatting. I'd be bored out of my mind if that was my character's goal. I never even make characters with that as a personality trait where they want to just sit around chatting. Then people say "Well, that's not my goal". So is your character's goal only to reach level 20? That is all that people do when they aren't sitting around chit chatting. If that goal is so I garauntee you won't make it before 5 months.

Sundren, I give people the choice of how kill experience comes to them. You can either decide you want to kill and level as fast as you can, so you get the 4xp / kill (Same level mind you). Or you can take a chill pill and RP with everyone, creating your own stories, and wind up with 80xp / kill (Same level mind you). I see people trying to further themselves, and I see others who think levels equal success.

Through your actions, you chose the first option. The server has a math operation that knows when you will reach level 20, and you are ahead of the rate it would take to reach it in 5 months. Every experience you get pushes you that much more ahead of the 5 month barrier so you only prolong your slow gain.

If you want ideas for RP, why don't you step back from the server and look at how it's designed. We left it so wide open for players to make a name for themselves. Anyone working to figure out why bane clerics are in Sharahan? Anyone trying to figure out why gnolls are banding together? What is the dark advent after? What sort of politics can you accomplish in sundren? Why did the boat full of Elves get attacked? Etc etc.

How about player initiated? I know one group that formed and is moving ahead. I see alot of evil players out there, maybe you could thwart their plans, or if you're evil come up with some?

Should I roleplay your character for you and invent your goals for you?

That was more than a one line reply I think.

[Cheatcake]

Well there can be groups of people in the quest, if people werent so hung up on exp it'd work..

I think the system as it is will work fine. It's slow enough to weed out most of the people who just want to hurry leveling. It's automated so you can still level eventually even if you get less DM attention or aren't around at the same time as DMs. Plus, you can take part in DMs adventures and earn XP that won't be reduced even if you are on the edge of "the curve". It's a fine piece of work

[Vichtor]

The only problem I have with the system is the ECL races are getting a bit boned, but not by the curve.

By the exp adjustments based on level.

ECL races are considered whatever character level they are, plus their ECL (a level 7 drow character, for instance, is considered level 9 by the system). Recently, there was a huge decline in the ammount of experiance gained from killing lower level creatures. ECL races already have much larger TNL values (TNL = 'till next level) which scale in proportion to their respective ECL values (Deep gnomes have the largest TNL, followed by Dark Dwarves and Drow, followed by the Planar races, followed by all the "normal" races (ECL=0) with the standard scale TNL) to reflect the ECL value. However, the problem occures when the levels are compared to what they are fighting, and it is exponentially worse at lower levels, not nearly as pronounced in the higher levels....

For example: A level 1 Drow will get "normal" experiance for killing a goblin, because the system sees the Drow as level 3 (1 character level pluse 2 levels from the ECL value). Once the Drow hits character level 2, however, he now gets just over half of the exp he previously got because now he is seen as one level higher than what he is killing. If he manages to get another level, he now gets about 10 exp per kill, at 90% of the experiance curve. Level 3 to 4 for a Drow character is 5,000 experiance. This problem is compounded even further for the Deep Gnomes who start out one level higher than the goblins, getting 11-28 experiance a kill with 5,000 exp needed to attain level 2.

This basically forces the ECL races to rely almost solely on DM experiance, or heavy griding to advance at all. In later levels, it may not matter as much, depending on how the higher level creature experiance levels are modified by level. If the scale is a set, static equation, then the problem will persist through all levels.

ECL is meant to be harder, and that is represented by the greater requirements between levels. The way the levels are currently being pulled for that system, however, is severely crippling any ECL race.

This doesn't make it twice as hard, or three times as hard, it is an exponential shift; for an Aasimar or Tiefling, it's about twice as hard. For a Drow, it's about four times as hard...for a Deep Gnome (poor little bastards) it's about NINE times as difficult for them to advance.

A quick comparison, to put it in perspective and kind of sum everything up. I have an Elf that is now level 4, and a Drow, who remains at level three. Here are the raw numbers for the the progression:

Elf:
level 3 to level 4 experiance needed - 3000
experiance per kill at level 3: 36-48
experiance per kill at level 4: 11-28

Drow:
Level 3 to Level 4 Experiance needed - 5000
Experiance per kill: 9-18


I suppose the silver lining would be that most ECL races will never hit the experiance cap unless they do nothing but mindlessly grind for hours on end every single day.

[GodBeastX]

The only problem I have with the system is the ECL races are getting a bit boned, but not by the curve.

By the exp adjustments based on level.

ECL races are considered whatever character level they are, plus their ECL (a level 7 drow character, for instance, is considered level 9 by the system). Recently, there was a huge decline in the ammount of experiance gained from killing lower level creatures. ECL races already have much larger TNL values (TNL = 'till next level) which scale in proportion to their respective ECL values (Deep gnomes have the largest TNL, followed by Dark Dwarves and Drow, followed by the Planar races, followed by all the "normal" races (ECL=0) with the standard scale TNL) to reflect the ECL value. However, the problem occures when the levels are compared to what they are fighting, and it is exponentially worse at lower levels, not nearly as pronounced in the higher levels....

For example: A level 1 Drow will get "normal" experiance for killing a goblin, because the system sees the Drow as level 3 (1 character level pluse 2 levels from the ECL value). Once the Drow hits character level 2, however, he now gets just over half of the exp he previously got because now he is seen as one level higher than what he is killing. If he manages to get another level, he now gets about 10 exp per kill, at 90% of the experiance curve. Level 3 to 4 for a Drow character is 5,000 experiance. This problem is compounded even further for the Deep Gnomes who start out one level higher than the goblins, getting 11-28 experiance a kill with 5,000 exp needed to attain level 2.

This basically forces the ECL races to rely almost solely on DM experiance, or heavy griding to advance at all. In later levels, it may not matter as much, depending on how the higher level creature experiance levels are modified by level. If the scale is a set, static equation, then the problem will persist through all levels.

ECL is meant to be harder, and that is represented by the greater requirements between levels. The way the levels are currently being pulled for that system, however, is severely crippling any ECL race.

This doesn't make it twice as hard, or three times as hard, it is an exponential shift; for an Aasimar or Tiefling, it's about twice as hard. For a Drow, it's about four times as hard...for a Deep Gnome (poor little bastards) it's about NINE times as difficult for them to advance.

A quick comparison, to put it in perspective and kind of sum everything up. I have an Elf that is now level 4, and a Drow, who remains at level three. Here are the raw numbers for the the progression:

Elf:
level 3 to level 4 experiance needed - 3000
experiance per kill at level 3: 36-48
experiance per kill at level 4: 11-28

Drow:
Level 3 to Level 4 Experiance needed - 5000
Experiance per kill: 9-18


I suppose the silver lining would be that most ECL races will never hit the experiance cap unless they do nothing but mindlessly grind for hours on end every single day.

You are misinformed my friend. The custom Exp system takes your literal class levels. This means that if you are a Level 3 Drow, you are considered level 3 for killing exp. Basically, your only downside is you gotta kill more of the same level stuff to advance.

[Cheatcake]

Uh but what of the numbers he posted? I'm assuming he got them from trying in game, in which case something looks screwy :/

[GodBeastX]

Yeah, I'm thinking maybe it's a bug. I never meant it to be that way, but it might have snuck in without me realizing I did it.

Basically the function I used for getting character level when killing does this:

Loop through 0 - 3
GetClassLevel(loopnumber)

Add them up, that's your level.

So it should be based on your class, not your race at all. However, I did have other places I check ECL for other things, liking not delevelling when respawning.

I can't check from here cuz I'm at work, but when I get home I'll check.

[Cheatcake]

I wonder if Obsidian snuck ECL values as class levels somehow. Wouldn't surprise me Hopefully it won't need anything clunky to fix

[Vichtor]

Yeah, I'm thinking maybe it's a bug. I never meant it to be that way, but it might have snuck in without me realizing I did it.

Basically the function I used for getting character level when killing does this:

Loop through 0 - 3
GetClassLevel(loopnumber)

Add them up, that's your level.

So it should be based on your class, not your race at all. However, I did have other places I check ECL for other things, liking not delevelling when respawning.

I can't check from here cuz I'm at work, but when I get home I'll check.

You're not going to check today! It's your day off! If I find you checking game code on your day off, I'll have to...um....get the other DMs to do something.

I'll just glare at you

[GodBeastX]

Nope. I double checked. I totally have it correct in the script.

Alright, things to question on this situation. I assumed the killer was in a party. Parties are based on what I call "Party Level".

1) First take the highest levelled character in the party (Based on class levels). That is your base party level.

2) Add 2 to the party level for every person over 5 members you have in the party. (A party 6 level 3's is considered a level 5 party).

3) Add 2 to the party level for every level under 5 someone is from the highest levelled person. (A level 2 and a level 8 partied are a level 10 party). This is so people can't super power level super lowbies, but can still gain exp if they happen to party.

You then take the challenge rating of the critter and compare it to this party level and you get the following:

Critters level compared to yours
< -4 = 0xp
-4 = 4xp
-3 = 8xp
-2 = 16xp
-1 = 28xp
0 = 40xp
1 = 50xp
2 = 62xp
3 = 76xp
4 = 91xp
>4 = 100xp

Then it is multiplied by your rate % for you personally and you get your final experience.

So if a party of two level 2's and a level 4 kill a level 3 goblin, you would do this:

Party level 4 compared to goblin level 3 = -1

28xp for each member of the party

Then if you have an exp rate of 10%:

28 * 0.1 = 2 (Rounded down) So that guy gets 2 exp.


The function I use to calculate XP level is like I said, I double checked. So if somehow Obsidian put it in to calculate it as a higher level I need to check. If you want to help me bug test this, get your rate, kill something, tell me exact exp you got, the rate you had, and exactly what you killed. I can then tell you whether obsidian snuck it in or not.

[Cheatcake]

If they did and hardcoded it I guess we can still go for something clunky as a last resort, like getting the race and reducing the party level value by their ECL or something :/

[GodBeastX]

If they did and hardcoded it I guess we can still go for something clunky as a last resort, like getting the race and reducing the party level value by their ECL or something :/

If they hardcoded it, I just subtract from the function that generate's the player's level. It's no biggy, I just want to double check they do.