DMFI Dice Rolls

[sharringtonm]

Right now its whatever you want. In the future, there will most likely be a sense motive skill though.

[nickbeat]

I usually allow bluff to oppose bluff as well. Figure a good poker player has a good sense of when he sees a bluff.

That logic makes sense Kangleton.

[undeadsteak]

From what GBX said long time ago, I believe, it was Wis Modifer + Level + 1d20. (Just roll a wis and add your level.) Some people use Will, so I dono, whatever is fine with them, I don't mind. Just don't use Craft Armor or something absurd... Unless its an armor related lie.

[sharringtonm]

Ya know what, I'm reading the bluff skill over and over and over again. I can't find anything in it about long term lies.
In fact, from what I can gather, the bluff skill is used to get people to act a certain way for a very short period of time.
Here's the words:

Favorable and unfavorable circumstances weigh heavily on the outcome of a bluff. Two circumstances can weigh against you: The bluff is hard to believe, or the action that the target is asked to take goes against its self-interest, nature, personality, orders, or the like. If it’s important, you can distinguish between a bluff that fails because the target doesn’t believe it and one that fails because it just asks too much of the target. For instance, if the target gets a +10 bonus on its Sense Motive check because the bluff demands something risky, and the Sense Motive check succeeds by 10 or less, then the target didn’t so much see through the bluff as prove reluctant to go along with it. A target that succeeds by 11 or more has seen through the bluff.

A successful Bluff check indicates that the target reacts as you wish, at least for a short time (usually 1 round or less) or believes something that you want it to believe. Bluff, however, is not a suggestion spell.

A bluff requires interaction between you and the target. Creatures unaware of you cannot be bluffed.

This doesn't say anything about plain old lying. Well unless by lying your trying to get someone to do something.

A good example of the PNP bluff skill would be using it to get past a couple of guards at a door

• "Here's my credentials"*Shows the guard the false credentials quickly like a cop flipping open and closed his badge*. That would require a bluff roll.

• "We met yesterday, I was with the mayor, you remember me right?" No Bluff test. Because its just a lie, your trying to make him change the way he thinks in the long term.

I'd go so far as to say, telling a lie that doesn't require the person to whom your lying to, to do anything, does not require a bluff check.
If you lie to someone, they can choose to believe it or not. If you lie to someone trying to get them to do something immediately .. bluff test.

The line about it not being a suggestion spell is especially telling to me. You can't use a bluff test to make a person think a certain way unless its for a very very short period of time. Like they say, a round or less.
For example :

• "There's a dragon behind you!" Your trying to make the person think there's a dragon behind them. They spin around in shock or take off running if the fail a Bluff test.

• "I'm a dragon, and I will eat you unless you do what I say!" That's trying to make a person think something longer then a round. Thats a lie and is not considered a bluff, so no test is needed, so they can believe you or not, its up to them.

Pretty straightforward huh? Did I misread it?

[undeadsteak]

I think that actually makes more sense, yeah, but I just bluff if I'm lying most of the times, but I'm not going to pull out bluffs and say I'm a dragon, or anything silly. As GBX said earlier on in these posts, using bluff just for yourself to see how your character would lie. They can react to it with a dice roll if they want.

[Gairun]

Yeah I like that sharringtonm. The first dragon example I would gladly let a PC roll against my PC. The second dragon example is EXACTLY what has been driving me nuts seeing people do. In my words that was 'god modding' my character and I just totally ignored or laughed at people who did that. This is a good read.