DMFI Dice Rolls

[ThePaganKing]

I agree with GBX and Sparkeh..........when you are out adventuring and RPing, you are using many of the skills that hopefully you put your points into. You are meeting many different types of people with different skills and such and also meeting people that talk a good game, but fail miserably when you are in a tough situation. Therefore, you would build those skills as you progressed (fighting or what) and would be able to see through people ruses if they are inexperienced.

Also, if you don't like the way Sundren or other D&D based games progress, then maybe you should find another type of game? You realistically can't change the whole game dynamic because it isn't perfect to your type of play, IMO?

This isn't a bashing, but I hear a lot of complaints about NWNII and D&D in general, if you hate the engine and the system, then don't play.

[rustediron]

lol, we love nwn2, it's just so damn buggy xD

[nickbeat]

Can I ask for clarification on Bluff rolls? I have been making bluff rolls frequently even when telling the truth to hide whether I am bluffing or not. Is that alright?

[Verrath]

*edit* Eeek, was responding to the OP and only now saw that this thread is *cough* somewhat old hehe *end edit*

Well... for starters, someone who gains a level stabbing orcs and wants an RP build really should not be investing skill points into conversation, but rather into whatever skill he was exercising at the time (Intimidate, Tumble, Parry come to mind). Someone who gained his level entirely through RP on the other hand... But we don't really do it that way, do we - and that's fine, too. The NWN2 skill system has a lot of drawbacks...

That said, I don't mind the rolls so much, unless there are so many of them that I don't have time to type in between. A quick bluff or persuade... I'd rather have the somewhat randomness of an ~occasional~ dice roll - it makes me have to respond to an unexpected situation, rather than plotting everything out beforehand. I ~like~ being derailed at times.

Also, while rolls cause a lot of argument and they do distract from the setting... sometimes a quick STR/DEX check can determine whether someone manages to evade another's grasp - while in the same situation without rolls each side might have argued they should succeed. And if one of these characters has an unfair advantage because he is a higher level - well, that character has generally been around longer.. he has seen more, done more... he has ~earned~ that advantage.

[sharringtonm]

Someone who gained his level entirely through RP on the other hand... But we don't really do it that way, do we - and that's fine, too.

You'd be surprised, some of us do. There are people that only have a weapon in their hands when there forced to by a DM event.

EDIT: Of course, then again, some of us are still only level 5 (finally) after a month of RPing! LOL. Its not as cool as it sounds. There are times I'm sorely tempted to go grind a few levels. Trust me.

[Gairun]

In my opinion, anytime anyone uses Game Mechanics or other out of character information, in character. . .that is the definition of Meta-Gaming.



EDIT: Also Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate Etc. are more for dealing with NPCs. I dont' care what the hell your bluff score is, if you tell me you are the king of Cormyr and roll a 20 I'm still going to laugh at you and probaly have you committed.

[undeadsteak]

Gairun, its a bit unfair for us that have bluff then. It tends to make it useless. But yes, please keep the lies realistic, If you want to tell people you're the King of Cormyr, Uhm, people might already know who that is, and would most likely not believe you.

[sharringtonm]

One of the nice parts about PNP, is it allows modifiers, that NWN2 cannot begin to touch.
In PNP, these are the modifiers to resist a bluff.

The target wants to believe you. -5
The bluff is believable and doesn’t affect the target much. +0
The bluff is a little hard to believe or puts the target at some risk. +5
The bluff is hard to believe or puts the target at significant risk. +10
The bluff is way out there, almost too incredible to consider. +20

These are bonuses to your SenseMotive skill (which since it doesn't exist (yet) I'd use whatever you've been using.)

Gairun's Example would easily give you at least a +20 to you sense motive skill. Also remember, Unlike with attack rolls and saving throws, a natural roll of 20 on the d20 is not an automatic success, and a natural roll of 1 is not an automatic failure.

Its in the rules, seriously.

EDIT: I should mention that the above modifiers, since if there is no DM, is determined by the person making the SenseMotive check, not the bluffer.

[Gairun]

What I'm saying steaky is that the conversation skills were designed more for NPC interaction, I believe a Dev. stated that earlier. Bluff is also used in accordance with other feats as well, such as feint. It's also used in many NPC areas in Sundren, and is used quite often when a DM is running an event, so I would have to disagree that it's useless.

Someone can play a character with mega high bluff, however in real life the player of the game sometimes has no clue how to be subtle, or how to lie. This leads to people just saying outrageous stuff and then hiding behind a Bluff roll.

In my opinion whenever someone else rolls their bluff then tells me how to act, "You have to believe what I said!", I consider that God Modding my character. I wont allow it.

However with that said I 'will' and have many times asked for a bluff roll from another PC if the circumstances make sense to do it.

[Kangleton]

In my opinion, anytime anyone uses Game Mechanics or other out of character information, in character. . .that is the definition of Meta-Gaming.

If by this you mean a Bluff Roll, I disagree. Yes, the number is OOC, but that number implies that certain things took place IC - things that indicate reason to disbelieve what was said. If someone rolls low on Bluff, you have every reason to suspect they were lying. Maybe they really weren't, but your character should definetly believe that he detected some deception, as that is what the Bluff/Sense Motive rolls symbolize.

[Gairun]

If my character says the sky is blue, and rolls a 1 on bluff, would your character call him a liar? Yeah it's better to use bluff when both parties agree and it's appropriate, not just scream liar whenever you see some blue text flashing in a game mechanics window.

[sharringtonm]

If my character says the sky is blue, and rolls a 1 on bluff, would your character call him a liar?

I wouldn't call him a liar, but you can be sure you'd see this in the chat box

*Snow Hawk looks at the sky to make sure its still blue*

[Kangleton]

If a character said "They sky is blue" and rolled a 1 on Bluff, I would interpret that as said character being crazy. I'd imagine him as displaying tell-tale signs of lying despite having spoken an obvious truth... I'd think he's nervous, or even terrified of his surroundings and I would RP it as such until his own RP guided me elsewhere.

[Verrath]

While we're on the subject, and if both parties are fine with rolling.... what to you oppose to a bluff? Spot? Will? Wisdom? Spot is the only one that is also a skill, the others seem unbalanced against it. Lore if it's someone saying they are a King?

[Kangleton]

It was something like:

1d20 + Wisdom Modifier + Half Your Level = Your Sense Motive

...I think thats how it used to be.