Classes not on server?

[ameinild]

...Waaah! I'm sorry original poster, I have just majorly derailed your thread xD

No prob, take it whereever you want, my initial question got answered, and the following discussion turned out quite interesting!

[rustediron]

lol, that's a very good point actually. Especially now that we have people that could pop the old syl in a second xD

[GodBeastX]

Problem is double sided too. While it's fun for PCs to have PVP with those things. Those evils are still players. They work weeks to get higher level only to have some guy pop in and get them perm'd XD

[rustediron]

I still think we need more PC highwaymen, Vampires, people with bounties on their heads, etc etc.

I mean, plenty of people got killed by syl, and multiple times as well. I think the fact that there are no complaints on the forums that I can see about that, and on the contrary there is a thread praising sylloven's RP; I think that just goes to show that the general populace of Sundren, are, in fact, mature enough to handle some exciting PvP.

[Infernal_Havok]

PVP is a good element in a very controlled and mutually agreed upon environment. An RP server never is that environment. You can have small disagreements and even fights time to time that lead to PVP action "AFTER CONSENT" of both individuals. Ah! but there is the key.. "Individuals" or a pair of players... Can you imagine PVP amongest entire races or groups like a drow faction? Sounds like an enormous amount of grief for a small incentive of RP and lore. Also the amount of time and energy DM's would have to waste in settling arguements, ban people for obnoxious behavior, and reprimand/penalize others... which then would be a colossal waste of time for the developers to make areas, items, lore, quests, etc... for something that causes alot of headaches and most likely not work out.

Personally, I never seen a player that was just "cool" with getting their ass handed to them in a PVP encounter without some small complaint or grudge unless they asked for it via a tell and agreed consented (which most do not). Also, from my experience most people that decide to play in RP servers feel very uncomfortable about PVP situations since that is not their primary goal for their character(s).

On a rare occurance PVP can add depth and grow character development if the player is mature enough to handle the situation IC. But outside of the few players that are disciplined enough to control their actions and emotions OOC most players are just not ready to lose or lose often without feeling persecuted or take on a negative outlook on how they have been unfairly treated by either opposing player or staff member.

[rustediron]

...Waaah! I'm sorry original poster, I have just majorly derailed your thread xD
All due to a throwaway comment because I was bitter my SE drow barb fistfighter was rejected

Anway, seeing everyone's opinion here, I see why you might not want drow... I accept that there may be, at least some people who may apply for drow without anticipating the enormous pvp avenues it will open up, and then complain.

Personally, I think PvP is the very essence of multiplayer gaming, and the sole reason I carry around so many scrolls... like I would waste em on PvE :P
Now where's my disjunction, I need to test it on devil Hlaine...

[Soulbadguy]

What I was basically trying to say in my post, is people do whatever they can to stick to their alignment. D&D wasn't meant for people at act that way. It was meant where you do whatever you want, then your alignment shifts with you. Seeing people behaving like that, D&D 4 is redoing alignment system.

I agree with this because sometimes DMs can't really tell exactly whats in the mind of a character either or even the single player games when you have to make a choice that determines an alignment shift. Evil characters can be compassionate and friggin unmerciful at the same time.. it is called conditional love.. or selective love.. they choose who they love and hate whenever they feel like it. Sometimes it can seem like an evil character is doing more good than evil.. but sometimes there isn't the chance to always do evil. But there is the thought process of it as well that accounts. Selfish reasons and desires. Im looking forward to seeing this new alignment system.

[GodBeastX]

What I was basically trying to say in my post, is people do whatever they can to stick to their alignment. D&D wasn't meant for people at act that way. It was meant where you do whatever you want, then your alignment shifts with you. Seeing people behaving like that, D&D 4 is redoing alignment system.

[Wyvern76]

The above sounds like it would fill an entire underdark PW, not a small part of an aready going PW.... would be grand though.

LOL... .such a server would have above ground "the raid dungoens".... raid local human villages for plunder and XP.. And the Underdark the slightly safter home. With politics and different factions and such...

Maybe someone should get on this PW!

[Soulbadguy]

*points to the bottom at his signature* I used to play Iara'Tal'Micar. She was a drow daughter of the house. It was pretty fun with Godbeast at the wheel. Yeah, a few ooc disagreements between us players at "how drow should be played" but all in all it was fun.

Just reclarification here from GBX it was kinda unexpected at times on how people reacted to my character when she is on the surface world. Some would actualy raise her from the dead if she died.. hahah and others would be wary of her. She never got in any PVP battles because she would let the underlings do it for her. Had some real good players that played out their males well. But they got the most beef from players cause they would wine as GBX said for losing. They would say they are powerful/not fair etc. Well, are drow considered a weak race? No they are not. It was the intention of GBX to spice the drow up a little.. plus no matter where drow went we were always at a disadvantage.. so we had some help with our characters item wise and it should be..for drow usualy have pretty good stuff. If it got bad or out of line we would run. Back then it was even more limited though on were we could go. There was alot less areas then now . You can't just run off an hide easily... but we had our sanctuary.

We weren't meant to win everytime.. but GBX was trying to place some "fear" or "respect" into player characters that are non drow.

Most characters were saying after getting their asses handed to them,

" Damn drow... gonna kill them when I see them... I see one now.. charge!"

when they should of said this,

" Damn..we should shouldn't mess around with these guys. If we do.. we best make some serious plans."

Some made an attempt..but there was still too many complaints ooc.

It seems nearly impossible at times to have a Drow "evil" race on here unless it has it's own little world to goof around in so they can plot and cause problems with each other.. have drow house conflicts..etc. Even one drow house conflicting with others would be great. I always invisioned having a drow house ( one house with player characters and a DM to run it) that was kind of weak on here at first. Then as players we have our drows plot and work together to become the most powerful house in the area as time went on.

You have to find the right players too not everyone can be the matron or daughter of the matron.



I didn't play Iara "textbook" though.. because i wanted to leave that more too NPC type drow and give my drow a little more "flaws" or even a slight "heart". Not saying she was compassionate but not as violent.. in fact she was spoiled/pampered and didn't care, bored of just breaking shit or watching blood . Most drow players respected it and it caused some good RP and conflict within the drow community for the most part.

I realy did enjoy playing that character as part of the house. I would do it again if given the chance.

I appreciated GBX and is hard work in the project with the drow. Mad props to my homie GBX .

[Wyvern76]

*Gets a very confused expression on face. Stands slowly and claps for GodBeastX*

[GodBeastX]

Good PC Drow are annoying to me because it's so easy to overturn prejudice on PW's. Why? Not because players are dumb or "Fall for crap". It's because of the flaw in D&D, the "Alignment" system which players don't use correctly. Alignment is supposed to reflect your character. Reflect him. However, people use it as a guide for their character. 4th Edition is revising it. HOwever, we're still 3.5 and in 3.5 people still make the mistake. They want to hate the good Drow, I know they do. But they are afraid of those 2 evil points. Personally? If you're afraid of evil points but want to hate a Drow, use neutral actions. Keep your distance, don't talk to them, you can even tell them you don't like em and junk. If you attack them for being Drow, or maliciously set them up for a fall, then you get evil points

I think even good people would look at a Drow and think "Ugh..." even if they knew they were good through and through. For example, how many of us will find a spider in the house, even if it's not poisonous, and not harmful, and just pick it up and play with it? Very few. Now imagine spiders were intelligent, most were poisonous, but a few are not, you know the one in front of you is not, but somewhere in the back of your mind is a fear that you could be wrong. Alot of people don't put mundane, every day fear into their RP, but that's what most of us would feel in RL.

Some of you do, though. And it adds a ton of flavor to your characters. I love seeing people take very real reactions to things. I had a little ghost haunting event and watched a player run out the door screaming, confusing the player outside. It was great. But, these scenarios are easily ruined when big mister bad comes in with a great sword, thinking "Hey, nothing can hurt me. Even though I have only 2 will save, and 8 wisdom, I am SOOOO not afraid of anything." Sometimes I even sit back and imagine what a near dead person might look like. Bones protruding from flesh, the white of inner body showing with blood pooling, it'd probably make someone vomit in RL, however, we're all hardened right?

RP is as real as you want to make it. It can be as superficial as Zelda, running around killing to complete your quests. Or as deep as an X-Files episode where the answer is out there. It's up to you all.

[Unholy Carp]

To play a good drow ... you would have to do a lot of RP for people to accept you.

Not a lot, really. Given that KOS PVP is frowned upon, all you would need is to have your character immediately come across as: physically attractive, completely non-threatening, and simple-minded to the point of mental handicap. It's the holy trinity of manipulating people into being sympathetic and protective.

If you can get one or two nonevils to just observe that sort of behavior, they would have to do some mental contortions to not label anyone attacking the hypothetical drow as a bully.



Hey, does this here post of mine count as meta-metagaming?

[GodBeastX]

Chances are, in an area filled with Drow you will likely encounter both good and evil. Reading Eilistraeean lore, they don't seclude themselves as much as reach out to others to get peaceful relations. However, what's more likely to reported in a place with no internet and no telephones? Also, how many Drow that follow Eilistraee of those 22% are on the surface? And of those on the surface, in a region where there are heavy Drow insurgence? From what I gathered, in the current years, Lolth is trying to expand herself to the surface.

"Yeah, people in our village hugged Drow today"

or

"Holy shit! Our village got wiped out by Drow raiders!!"

I do think at times people do take the Drow stigma too far. However, I'd rather they take it too far than not at all. I'd rather they get overly mistreated than accepted as "Just the same as everyone else".

[Dark presence]

I think the stigma against drow has always been greatly overrated. I also think it is ridiculous to see in action too, from experience. If drow are all evil, scary, and can drop you in an instant, why are people so aggressive towards them? Run and flee! Or when they do die so easily, why are you so scared of them?

Now as an aside, I've read a quote attributed to Ed Greenwood that says 22% of all drow worship Eilistraee in some way, and about 10% would be full time worshippers, like clerics. So saying that good drow are rare is true, but its by no means so rare that you would never encounter one, and certainly you would encounter them more than others on the surface. And anyone who remembers my drow from the original Sundren, she would have been a prime example of that, having actually been a worshipper of Kiaransalee first and Eilistraee second.

And after some quick googling, here is a second hand source of that quote. Its in the first post. And if you didn't know, Ed Greenwood is the creator of the Forgotten Realms. http://www.eilistraee.com/forums/vie...1e8d558fd63be1

Of course this is getting off topic...