Classes of Sundren

[Brenil]

Hello,

While waiting for MoTB to arrive (whenever that may be, thank you UPS) and without the ability to log on, I've been thinking hard on what class I'd like to re-roll as on Sundren. I've been using a couple character builders and such for tinkering with several builds. Yet while doing this, a thought occured to me.

What are the most common builds on Sundren?

Conversely, what are the most uncommon builds?

Of course I'm referring to 'legal' builds as well, or non-restricted, which are now are the Warlock class and several new MoTB Prestige Classes.

Those aside, I began to wonder which were most common and which were most uncommon. And personally, which are most useful?

I looked over the statistic page and while that helps at determing that there are alot humans taking fighter levels, it doesn't help glean on the final builds of people, since many are multi-classing in a variety of ways.

I've always had difficulty coming up with a class in NWN, the whole multi-classing, prestige classes, and need to pre-build your class prior to playing in order not to screw something up made it quite complicated. So I figured that listening to others say what they've played or what they've seen or what they wish they'd see more of might help me decide easier.

In my experience thus far on Sundren, I've seen the following builds most:

Druid & X multi (I assume Druid/warpriest? Or some variation)
Bard & Fighter/Ranger/Barbarian (RDD build I suppose?)
Numerous Fighter multis
Archer builds (Only a few that were actual rangers)
Battlemage build (Only a few of these, some were quite whacky, like a Barbarian/wizard)

As for full classes, the only full classes I've seen in any number of abundance were Paladins, Clerics, and Warlocks (now suitably uncommon).

Classes I've rarely if ever seen on Sundren thus far are Bards, Wizards, and Sorcerers. Full Barbarians I haven't really run into as well. Also, I've seen a few Wizards, but not one Sorcerer (that I know of).

Anyway, I'm on the fence between going a full soldier-type character (fighter plus something else I haven't decided), a full wizard, or a battlemage.

So... what do you see most on Sundren? What do you see least? What would you like to see more of? And what would you like to see less of?

[undeadsteak]

I'd really love to see a pure bard, or rogues? where are our rogues? A multiclass of bard/rogue would be cool too, i suppose..

[Brenil]

Yes, rogues, I forgot them. I've only seen a couple rogues and both were level 3, so I don't really think that counts. I haven't seen a 'high level' rogue that I know of yet. Quite unusual, who does all the trap disarming, lock-picking, and (with track isn't really needed anymore), scouting?

I've pondered with making a rogue/assassin, however the only way I think I could play that character is as a drow, which is heavily restricted at the moment.

[Saulus]

I imagine we will see more rogues as our dungeons become tougher to do without the skills of one.

[Poor_Otis]

I love rogues. I play a multi rogue. Unfortunately, stealth still seems not to be working correctly, nor are sneak atacks working consistently. Both of these things make the rogue a little less fun to play. But I lthink OE is working on these bugs. I hope, anyway...

[Saulus]

Actually if you have Hide in Plain sight stealth is fixed and works now.

[dashminus]

I love rogues. I play a multi rogue. Unfortunately, stealth still seems not to be working correctly, nor are sneak atacks working consistently. Both of these things make the rogue a little less fun to play. But I lthink OE is working on these bugs. I hope, anyway...

Works for me. All the time. Except when the bad guy is looking directly at me. Otherwise, my roguey character enjoys getting his sneaky attacks in.

[Poor_Otis]

I keep witnessing the problem where sneaks are NOT firing consistently though. Without changing position, and without the baddie turning the attack someone else, my attacks will sometimes be sneaks, and sometimes not, without anyone changing position at all. That cannot be called working correctly.

No predictability nor consistency. I've tested this online and offline, with the rogue behind the 180 degree line and positioned differently. Melee and ranged. No rhyme or reason to when sneaks fire and when they don't.

Ask Daye and other rogues about it. Test it yourself. Submit a bug report to OE when you see the problem.

I don't care that OE changed the mechanics slightly on how sneak are suppose to fire. I just want them to make it work consistently so I can position my character accordingly...

[edit] I've seen some posts about stealth still not working on the Bioware boards, or so I thought. Maybe it had to do with folks trying to use stealth who did not have HiPS...I'll go have another look.

[Dawnfire]

Yeah, I noticed how inconsistent the sneak attacks are too. I have a ranger/rogue with the same problem.

[nutranurse]

Well, here is a kind of fighter on the PW that is fairly rare: The pure-defender (i.e. improved combat expertise, tower shield +X, tons of AC+ armour, heavy as poop armour, etc.)

And that character happens to be....
Rook ((Now if there only was some way to get NWnine PrC then rook would be the ultimate defender!!!))

Also. We need more bards. Fact.
And we have plenty of sorcerers. Most just also are fighters.... ((Damned EK!))
Also. We need more bards, interesting Paladins, club-wielding barbarian weaponmasters, and a proper & intresting Pale Master (though the PrC is terrible.... it adds to rp!)

[Slaiv]

I noticed this when I first started playing the game. Setting myself up -behind- the enemy has worked 100% unless they had started to look at me (changing targets) then sometimes it falters.

Set yourself up behind.. and if no lag is calculated it should fire every sneak attack. Yes, I know that's not 'flanking' but I imagine Rogues were far too powerful being able to stand practically anywhere and get sneak attacks in NWN 1

[Poor_Otis]

Setting myself up -behind- the enemy has worked 100% unless they had started to look at me (changing targets) then sometimes it falters.

See, that's the thing. It doesn't work 100% of time. Not even close.

[Felnak]

I keep witnessing the problem where sneaks are NOT firing consistently though. Without changing position, and without the baddie turning the attack someone else, my attacks will sometimes be sneaks, and sometimes not, without anyone changing position at all. That cannot be called working correctly.

No predictability nor consistency. I've tested this online and offline, with the rogue behind the 180 degree line and positioned differently. Melee and ranged. No rhyme or reason to when sneaks fire and when they don't.

Ask Daye and other rogues about it. Test it yourself. Submit a bug report to OE when you see the problem.

I don't care that OE changed the mechanics slightly on how sneak are suppose to fire. I just want them to make it work consistently so I can position my character accordingly...

[edit] I've seen some posts about stealth still not working on the Bioware boards, or so I thought. Maybe it had to do with folks trying to use stealth who did not have HiPS...I'll go have another look.

I definately do not get sneak attacks 100% of the time I am entitled to based on my observation and judgement.

I have almost always played a tank type char, with the exception of a pure monk build that I have used. Playing a stealth type is a challenge. Generally, leveling and events are geared toward tank, paladin, ranger, cleric or mage types. The stealther usually sits on the sidelines until he has his 60 seconds of fame... provided he is not upstaged.

Look at all the areas; stealth and trap detection/removal and pick locks is rarely required... obstacles seemingly requiring them can be circumvented in most instances. Saulus states, "I imagine we will see more rogues as our dungeons become tougher to do without the skills of one." That would help since right now, a rogue can feel like a wallflower.

Whenever a character is added to a group, the dynamics of the group is changed... or should be. If an archer is added, then expect some arrows to be flying... play off it. If a rogue is added, then expect some stealth, allow some time for it to work. Running from mob to mob is rarely utilizing the talents of the rogue. Charging into the fray makes it more difficult for the rogue to get sneak attacks since he has a greater distance to cover than if the mobs were pulled to the group.

I believe that some people do not see these builds as fun to play because so many other players do not know how to play WITH them. Try figuring out what these others need to be successful and see if you can help out. THERE, is the challenge! The wiz and sorc needs someone to tank the mob. The rogue needs someone to distract the mob and could use some help with positioning the mob... one step or two can make a huge difference.

Watch two rogues work... at times it is like a well choreographed dance. Fingal, Nyte, Nif, Hop and Dash are all excellent examples of rogues who work well with other rogues. Daye's style adjusts accordingly to the strengths and tendencies of her partner. Sorry to anyone I missed.

Do not recall seeing any pure rogues of any substantial level. Ranger/Rogue, Fighter/Rogue, and Wizard/Rogue seems to be much more common. I am not aware of any pure monks... maybe Arakes Vaeren. I know of at least one sorc and at least one bard.

Felnak

Daye: one who dances in the shadows... featuring Mister and Missus Stabby

[Brenil]

Also. We need more bards. Fact.
And we have plenty of sorcerers. Most just also are fighters.... ((Damned EK!))
Also. We need more bards, interesting Paladins, club-wielding barbarian weaponmasters, and a proper & intresting Pale Master (though the PrC is terrible.... it adds to rp!)

Hmm... Sorcerer/EK is kind of a bad combo, yeah? Only builds I've seen get you level 8 spells, some medicore fighting ability and Still Spell (so really offensive spells are capped at 7). Plus you have kind of middle of the road charisma and strength, therefore the only thing that makes that build even somewhat useful (that I can see anyway, maybe I'm wrong) is the numerous spells per day.

I always thought Wizard/Fighter/EK was the 'best' Battlemage build. As far as I know, I haven't seen one Sorcerer and only a few wizards. The rest were some bastardized hybrids.

Regarding bards, there's a ton of them on the server, but all of them (except one that I ran into) only have a couple levels at best in it, just for the bonus damage song and/or prerequisite to RDD or (God forbid) Arcane Archer.

So far I'm leaning toward Wizard or Battle Cleric... maybe Rogue or Bard... I've never really played either before, so I don't know what to expect (except from the Rogue, which I can glean enough from my single player character who was rogue/fighter/duelist to make an estimation of how it'd play).

Oh and regarding Palemaster... is Sundren using modified Palemaster rules? I hear there's a pretty popular hak that 'fixes' the class to make it less... terrible.

[Averdan]

Well I believe the problem why there are not that many rogues, and that is my opinion since I play one, is that if you dont have hips and a bound to either run away, and hide behind a rock in order to sneak someone a fight against a spittlefist can be very tiring. thats also a reason why there are nearly no pure rogues.. also the fact that once you reach a certain lvl or you finally get HIPS (hide in plain sight), your opponents/creatures that you fight are normally immune to sneak attacks, so the rogue is reduced to a fighter (perhaps with two weapons) with nearly no damage... especially when you play a halfling that has 12 or less strength. RP wise are rogues great because you can just about do anything with them.

Just to let you know I am playing a rogue/fighter that will become an assasin, also a pure fighter, a bard/fighter soon to become rdd, and a monk/cleric seeking for truth with his sacred fists.