RP Information - Religion in the Realms

[Valhalla]

Edit: Kit, not everyone is an arcane caster! Everyone has access to it, but the potions have their own issues.

For sure, Jai_V. And yeah, I've actually personally used the "flask" excuse for chugging Nondetection potions at the 2nd wind.

Even if people aren't intentionally metagaming, I don't think anyone can deny that it's better for everyone involved the closer your IC and OOC knowledge of a character match up.

[Kitsunestume]

Edit: Kit, not everyone is an arcane caster! Everyone has access to it, but the potions have their own issues.

True, and arguably the people who need it most are those divine casters who have the enhanced auras. I do recall that the P&P solution for such was Undetectable Alignment, which might be an interesting alley to persue.

[kuscotopia]

... Not to mention organizations we have that operate in the gray area... but feel free to blanket everything with that statement.

I have been in a neutral faction quite awhile now and I can honestly say it is no cake-walk, especially as, at least, Exigo is linked to trade.

Given how polarized several factions are, it seems to me that you risk losing half your PC customer base if you trade with one side. Even if you remain open to trading with the opposing sides as well.

IG it has been claimed by NPC Exigo higher-ups that Exigo pays stiff margins to various groups to maintain their trade. This isn't so much neutrality as it is appeasing everyone. As a player, this gets tiresome.

[Valhalla]

Pretty sure we've got some Swiss player(s), maybe they could give you some tips?

(Or at least I know the Swiss aren't an uncommon sight on NWN2 PWs.)

Edit: Also! If the Swiss aren't any help perhaps you could talk to the Swedes.

[kuscotopia]

They cheat...they have the Alps.

[Doubtful]

And you have the Spine! All you're missing is a lot of pikemen and some crazily flamboyant clothes.


And Toblerone.

[kuscotopia]

Hmmm...maybe Avanthyr can spare some big floppy hats with feathers...

Reality makes the Alps a great advantage. Hannibal would have had a far easier go of things if his army were a bunch of undead, or able to be fed by a handful of clerics.

[Atmosphere]

While good and evil are very much a thing, you can play a character who doesn't care nor see things as such. I always encourage people who debate alignments to just go neutral. The black hand and the triad might clearly be good and evil, but as Saulus said we have more factions that are open to all alignments. Ebon Coin, the Legion, Exigo... you can play that evil Legion solider or a good hearted thief. Whurest might be all dwarves but you can be a chaotic good or a lawful evil one.

So,

If a paladin reads someone as evil, is that a license to kill?

Maybe. If they kill that lawful evil character they might have to deal with the whole law of man verse law of god situation. They also might let the good thief who just stole all the evil nobles goods escape on purpose and be stuck in an odd situation with a law man. Things can get really situational and difficult for certain classes with strict religious codes.

[Cornuto]

Paladin: *Detects Evil* Halt evil person! Face the wrath of my god!
Evil Guy: I surrender.
Paladin: Welp, guess I gotta accept that... erm. Let's go to jail then.

**Next Scene**

Paladin: Book him on one count of 'Being Evil'
Jailor: GTFO...

[GodBeastX]

I always tell people good and evil are extremes for people. There are few races that are consistently good or consistently evil that are open to players. There's a lot of good players that are probably neutral in their activities and a lot of evil players that behave more neutral as well.

There's also the thing where if players are able to always hide alignments, what's the point of the detection spells?

I know of a few evil people who havn't hidden their alignments at all and are pretty clever in their RP so that nobody really cares. One was super chaotic/evil and has yet to be hunted by paladins because they handle themselves well enough.

I'm going to write a wiki page just on alignments. I found a forum post that references damn near every book source on good/evil, some of this may surprise people!

[sonuvalich]

On the topic of someone using detect alignment on you if they see your icon fade, might I suggest not RPing with that person until he/she learns to stow the metagaming? If he had no reason to scan you up until that point, an OOC icon is not sufficient rationale.

I find the constant need to nondetect myself part of the character, he wakes up, he brushes his teeth, he makes sure to obfuscate his true nature and his location from prying eyes. If I forget OOC then he forgot IC and there could be consequences. The only time it ever irks me is when I rest off buffs so I'm not a lighthouse and then have to recast it, because if someone sees me recast there could be that awkward moment. Then again, that fault is mine, because I could detour somewhere like the Enclave to rest and avoid the whole issue...so...yeah.

I do enjoy the grayer areas of morality and ethics more, especially in the confines of a fantasy setting. I like characters that can be incredibly kind to their friends and loved ones, but a monster to those they hate. I like the idea that an evil warlord might be moved by the tears of a mother every so often and do something a little out-of-character. Mortals should have highs and lows, good days and bad. In my humble, generally worthless opinion, if you say to yourself "he would never do that because he is evil!" then I think you put huge manacles and leg-irons on your character. So the point about worshippers doing X vs. gods representing Y is very poignant, because we are supposed to be flawed, dynamic characters whereas the gods are typically the embodiment of something which makes them less dynamic, though not wholly stagnant or predictable.

[Lotus]

On the topic of someone using detect alignment on you if they see your icon fade, might I suggest not RPing with that person until he/she learns to stow the metagaming?

If this is actually happening, give me names.

[GodBeastX]

I do enjoy the grayer areas of morality and ethics more, especially in the confines of a fantasy setting. I like characters that can be incredibly kind to their friends and loved ones, but a monster to those they hate. I like the idea that an evil warlord might be moved by the tears of a mother every so often and do something a little out-of-character. Mortals should have highs and lows, good days and bad. In my humble, generally worthless opinion, if you say to yourself "he would never do that because he is evil!" then I think you put huge manacles and leg-irons on your character. So the point about worshippers doing X vs. gods representing Y is very poignant, because we are supposed to be flawed, dynamic characters whereas the gods are typically the embodiment of something which makes them less dynamic, though not wholly stagnant or predictable.

Sounds like you like having humanity in RP, because this is how people tend to behave.

[GodBeastX]

I think the fact that this discussion fell to alignments again shows that people may still be too focused on alignments. Really in it's simplest terms, the DM will only shift alignments when they feel a person has a strong action against their alignment and will be open to discuss the shift.

As for detect evil, I hope that paladins are not ignoring the strength of the alignments they are detecting.

There are four levels if it was unclear.

Faint
Moderate
Strong
Overwhelming

Faint is likely a petty evil being or someone who isn't so driven to evil.

Overwhelming is a force of evil itself.

Pay attention to these things, Paladins, they matter.

[Rekov]

Well sonuvalich and GBX kind of hit the nail on the head with those last two posts. The idea of absolute morality really is quite foreign to the way people actually act, so it seems counter-intuitive to bother with a detection system which strictly defines people to belonging in one category or the other.

On the one hand we have people who come in shades of greys, and on the other we have Paladins getting a yes or no answer. So what would be most useful to me is advice on how to reconcile this in RP.

EDIT: Didn't see your latest post, GBX. I didn't know paladins see a gradient. That makes a lot more sense now! :P