What can be done to save Sundren?

[Saulus]

I see messages like this from FooGoo and then when you read a DM's point of view, like GD -- it seems to be the total opposite. I suspect the truth is somewhere inbetween.

As I said before, it's easy to sit here on the soapbox, but so far I've only had one person step forward and send me a PM offering to actually help and do something.

It's frustrating when someone can write 3 pages of criticism but when you ask them to pick up a hammer and nails the room is empty. There is very little creative control I impose on anyone (DMs, Devs), so what it comes down to is people willing to work out the problems, decide what's most important and create a plan of action.

I can help with all of that, but this isn't like 4 years ago where I could spend 20 hours a week working on the module, and the rest of us still volunteering (2 or 3 other than me? Semi-active) certainly don't have it either.

[Thief Of Navarre]

That's the exact reason I didnt offer criticism, because I could not contribute anything to making things better! If I had the time or the inclination I doubt I would be of much help, most I have done is fix up a few pages on the Sundren Wiki and that took me long enough with my dwindling knowledge of HTML and more importantly copyright.

[Seheren]

I think short of starting over with a new character base in hopes of drawing people in((which I agree is drastic)), the best bet is for people to get in game. I had a month or so where I have had almost 0 time to play, and now that I am back I find myself sadly alone. Get back in there, people! Get your friends and that creepy neighbor kid, too.

[Thief Of Navarre]

Fair enough saying that but when you can turn on the Xbox and have 5000+ people to Gnasher to pieces its hard to justify spending an hour on Sundren just in case someone might come on. Im sure there was another thread with the community playtimes on....?

[Lotus]

Would you players say that it's tough to tell what exactly you should be getting up to in the server's current storyline?

[Seheren]

Perhaps some scheduled events. Especially ones that incorperate new characters.

Also, the possibility of great reward might coax people from thier distractions.

[Thief Of Navarre]

Yeah, scheduled events would help! A set time a week when people are garanteed some playtime. Would make alot of difference to people like me who have limited weekend hours.

[Fezzik]

Would you players say that it's tough to tell what exactly you should be getting up to in the server's current storyline?

To a point. Some factions are harder to deal with than others (BH -- Lets go cause havoc! Trium -- Lets go stop havoc! ; Legion -- Settle down, we can handle this; Eboncoin -- how can we make money and screw people over!? Exigo -- Umm... who do I sell stuff to?)

The general story line is ... what is it?

[pixiegirl]

Exactly.

[Seheren]

To be honest, that is really the main reason I ever suggested something as dramatic as a server-wipe. There is so much that has been done by the players that were involved that it is difficult to see where you can step in and make a difference. Hard to tell how to move things along. So two scenario:

1) A server wipe is considered. Start all players that take part in the first weeks of the newly invigorated story at an increased level. Say level 6-8. Also give them increased starting gold to buy level appropriate gear. Story moves along, new and returning players have a chance to get deeply involved.

2) The DM's try to run a series of ((preferably scheduled)) events to help pick things up. Give groups/factions/individuals some direction. Try to run things to get the newer characters/players involved as well.

Either way, get the word out. Let people know that things are going to get up and moving again.

[Doubtful]

Or are you referring to the dissolution of a lot of the Factions? In which case I agree that that sucked. Personally, I took the destruction of the Grove as a big hit, as it was the only place for those who love playing Druids/Rangers/Elves to gather and feel at home.

I second this. If there is no Grove, there is no me. I personally believe I was the heart of that place considering the most active player in the forest but because of this major loss I had to resort to my second account and play other characters. I loved my Grove. It was my home and a place I sworn to protect as a Warden and Senior Druid.

I mean, I even tried to request that I be the new caretaker but the Staff denied me so I gave up and let the Grove sink as it did. I was very bitter about that and vanished.

I know that not long ago I know that Symphonic was looking to run events featuring the remnants of the Grove/Wardens, I'd suggest if you're interested then I'd try and hook up with him and see where it leads.

The grove itself is corrupted, the keeper insane and the Viridale a pretty (very) unpleasant place - BUT, if you're willing to work with the DMs and do some serious RP then I see no reason why you couldn't establish your own circle some place.

We won't just hand-wave it back to how it was, there were firm design decisions regarding the removal of the grove as it was, but if you want to focus on the future rather than the past then I'm sure we can produce results together.

[Phantom Lamb]

I see two conflicting issues with most suggestions here:

1) People are an asset that we lack. The server's backbone is as well developed as any out there. But Sundren is currently understaffed, and most of the old dogs are burnt out and not contributing currently. The spike of DM absense in fall of 2012 really depleted the player base as well. And make no mistake - players are assets as well.

2) Suggestions are grandiose. A plot reset would require lots of rewiring and mapping changes, for example. I've seen this frequently in the past - essentially getting very excited about a grand idea, and not having the manpower to take it all the way to completion. It drives me nuts personally. There's a ton of half-finished projects.

So my suggestions are this:

- Be realistic about what you can and can not do.
Adding the class pack, adding new quests that are created by the community, plots that don't require a lot of dev work: these are all achievable ideas.

- Demonstrate loyalty and forgiveness.
We all talk about it in private channels, but I'm going to throw it out there. Building friendships and communities is hard. It's even harder when you can't see someone face-to-face. Everyone knows the value of a strong community. But if you really want to build something, you need to put in the effort. Work to repair and move forward instead of running somewhere else. Because that "somewhere else" is probably 70% of what Sundren could be if it gets built up again. You're never going to have a perfect environment fall into your lap. If you want it, build it, and work at it.

[Phantom Lamb]

One more easy suggestion:

- Implement "antagonist" characters.
I say "antagonist," because "villain" sounds too closely related to evil. What I envision is a PC who can drive their own mini-plot. This would probably need regulation - approval by a character request should be just fine. These antagonists could get their plots approved and be given certain assets to manage that plot, perhaps even leveled up for free slightly. There is trust involved here for sure - they might be given gear to give out, gold, faction points, etc. But the flip side is, antagonists must be able to be foiled. So rolled into this, I'd suggest antagonists are permadeath on any CVC death, rezzing only when killed by monsters. The goal of the antagonist would not be to have a long term character which you love - it would be to fill empty DM times without giving out full DM responsibilities. It's a crossbreed that could inject some excitement.

[Gamling]

My suggestion is to take a look at some of the high population NWN1 servers and take a look at what they've done right, then try to emulate it. It's true that NWN2 has limitations compared to NWN1 but some of their policy which has nothing to do with physical limits are pretty interesting. On some servers DMs dont' even run events because the world is alive enough on its' own. Not saying Sundren shouldn't have DM events but the possibility to sustain its' self without it would be pretty neat.

[Dispater]

I really like the idea of the antagonist characters.