What can be done to save Sundren?

[Jhickey]

I've been here for six or seven years now, on and off. This is my first time playing a character who shapes anything. I had fun then and I'm having fun now. When all else fails, make another character and try things again. You'd be surprised at the things you missed.

I'm often the pen and paper GM when our group can manage to get together. You need to remember. GMs are players too. We need to have fun.

Well stated. I to am a PnP DM, when time permits. It is true the DMs here are here to have fun. Most of the DMs know me and know I hate to bother them with anything, goes with players too. The one thing we have to remember is that we are all people, we all have feelings, we all want things out of our experiences here. As a player I am always looking at what I can do to help other players and DMs to enjoy their time with me when I do get to play. Even if it means making a new toon to level with them, from just hanging and RPing, to helping a DM when they need an Evil PC, even being captured by team good (Even knowing all they want is my head)

The point is as long as we continue to invest our time/an donate money when we can, the server will survive, be it at large numbers or the around 20 still playing. Lets just add to this thread what it is we are willing to do to help what we have.

I am willing to offer RP, help leveling, or even dungeon crawls. My term just started at school, I teach 2 sections of Psych 100, I take 3 grad courses, plus 3 undergrad courses, still work and maintain my marriage (not always fair to my wife), and still be a father to 3 very active girls. I enjoy gaming (Especially here), and I am willing to make Sundren better by offering what time I can spare to any of the above; possibly more if asked nicely.

Lets make it better together.
Joe

[cmosier]

Exactly. Let see what we can do as players. Just as J above. I've a family and job. But playing Sundren beats what's on television, except for Alabama games, and I can listen to them win just fine. I've been trying to find time to get an alt to help some of the newer players.

This is my entertainment. I enjoy the time and effort I have to put into it. Even my notebook beside me that has all kinds of notes to which my wife comments "You're such a dork." :-)

Game on. Have fun. Roll Tide.

[LOLC2k]

I would keep at it. I also came from ToA and found Sundren to be quite a place. Limited DMing doesn't really bother me much, I'm able to have fun regardless of that.

I would continue what you are doing, but I would definitely also put forward that something needs to be done to help non min maxed lower level play. I have played three characters since starting, one who is a powerbuild, who had an easy time levelling. My middle of the pack character had more difficulty on this server at low levels than on other servers, and as such, I hit a wall around level 9 until I found groups. And by wall, I mean I basically had to shelve him for a week because there were only level 20 characters running around. My other character actually levelled quickly (ONLY because I made him during the boom, as he was my first character) but was completely useless until high levels, and even then wasn't great shakes, valean, my mystic theurge.

I think that some spells need major buffing, specifically evocations. Also, the fact that durations were cut AND resting was limited seems like an unecessary double penalty. I say this because the melee classes have ALSO gotten a lot of love. As it is, to get any use out of valean, i ended up making him a gish... which is a valid, but narrow, archetype of casters.

So really, the only problem I noted was difficulty getting to the rest of the pack as a new player. Most of gripes and the reason I don't really play anymore are intrinsic to NWN 2. Wishing the server well, and I'm sure I'll still post around here, though.

[Farmboy2003]

Am I the only one who can't get his hands down because of the last custom content update, because they might be needed up there again soon? I wish I could script, code and design in the toolset so I could lend a hand, but here I am just shoehorning some pointy-eared fetish into an already great and constantly improving world. What keeps me here at the players mostly, but that's only because I can't seem to figure out who the DMs are ;-)

[Ditto]

School season's also getting into swing, so the population will dip correspondingly, on top of everything already mentioned here.

May as well take a crash course on the DM client.

[Jhickey]

Am I the only one who can't get his hands down because of the last custom content update, because they might be needed up there again soon? I wish I could script, code and design in the toolset so I could lend a hand, but here I am just shoehorning some pointy-eared fetish into an already great and constantly improving world. What keeps me here at the players mostly, but that's only because I can't seem to figure out who the DMs are ;-)

I think your elven push is exactly what I mean by player driven. It has been done, and can be again (Starting a faction or sub-faction). All player involvement should never go unnoticed. You are doing a great job. Keep up your push, and I will try to support your endeavors whenever I can. Sadly I cant invest to much into it since I am a semi non-important bad guy. But I will lend a supporting elf from time to time.

[Farmboy2003]

Please don't give me any credit - Satoshi seems a rising star. I've just been playing nothing but elves, in a world that doesn't cater to them, since l first joined!

[Torgar]

OK, I think I've read enough to get the gist of what people are trying to say on this thread, and I can sum it up pretty quickly too.

"I want stories to be about ME changing things, not me helping the group I'm associated with do it."

Now, I'm perfectly accepting of the fact this could be wrong for some of you, but most will likely agree this is the crux of the problem for them. They want to be the star of a story, not the supporting actor. And I don't mean "story" as in the entirety of the sundren plot line, I mean more specific things, individual plot lines and such.

The problem with that, is that most don't understand that for many years, that's what the staff DID, was concentrate on specific people, let them change things, shake the world. It was awesome, for those people. And then they left. Some left early, some late, but they would just disappear, or get mad when something finally didn't go their way. Occasionally, that character would die, which is cool. But, in the end, you had 3-5 people who could change the world, and the rest of us could either play supporting cast or just stand to the side and watch, because we weren't important enough to register on their radars.

So, from what I've seen in the last few years, things have shifted to be more about the factions and groups in the valley, and honestly I feel like that is a much better idea. When one person did well before, their faction just got a nod, but then all the other people involved were asked why they weren't helping, or weren't also doing that. Now, however, when a faction does well in a plot, the entire faction benefits from the notoriety, because they all contributed.

Sundren is a fine server, more developed then any other server in NWN2. It's honestly the best server around, and has been for years, because unlike the other servers, it is still here. Numbers might go up or down, but we keep on keeping on. People might not get along with Saulus, but I don't often hear as many people have respect for an owner of a server like they do for him, because he doesn't abuse his power with it. The current staff doesn't run around with god-alts just having a grand time while we have to put up with it, they try to push us to be great, to do great things.

The server doesn't need saving. The server needs people to be willing to play on a team, because that's what factions are, and groups. Teams. Pick a team, advance their goals. Do that, you WILL get noticed for individual accomplishments too. Think of it like football. No one really cares if you have the most pass completions in a season if the rest of your team fumbles the ball, only gains a few yards, or your defense consistently lets the enemy offense through. It's when everyone does well and works together that you really get noticed.

You don't need to belong to a faction to be recognized for helping it. Just work together to accomplish things, and the individual work you put into those goals WILL be noticed and rewarded, trust me.

[kuscotopia]

The server doesn't need saving. The server needs people to be willing to play on a team, because that's what factions are, and groups. Teams. Pick a team, advance their goals. Do that, you WILL get noticed for individual accomplishments too. Think of it like football. No one really cares if you have the most pass completions in a season if the rest of your team fumbles the ball, only gains a few yards, or your defense consistently lets the enemy offense through. It's when everyone does well and works together that you really get noticed.

You don't need to belong to a faction to be recognized for helping it. Just work together to accomplish things, and the individual work you put into those goals WILL be noticed and rewarded, trust me.

Hear, hear. The best words of advice I can offer are along these lines. Do not approach Sundren as a consumer. It doesn't end well (spoken from experience). While the staff enjoy telling stories and faction leaders like seeing faction goals furthered, ultimately it isn't any one person's responsibility to ensure someone else is entertained.

Invest in a character (writing, back-story, art, whatever!) and come to your factions with an open mind and a desire to not just consume tasks/objectives but to help create them. For yourself and others.

[Saulus]

^ I'm glad someone understands this, nothing makes me more miffed when people complain as if we are expected and paid to entertain them. It's ridiculous. Not saying everyone acts like that but some people seem pretty godamn self-entitled for something they receive for FREE.

[Doubtful]

I look at Sundren and I see something that is the product of years of hard work, love and dedication by dozens of people. A place that's continued to develop through highs and lows, and will continue to develop and change over the coming years.

I see a stand-out bunch of custom scripts and routines that are the envy of servers and scripters across the NWN2-o-sphere.

I see outstanding areas with mapping that stands way, way above the average benchmarks set in other places.

I see a committed player base who excel at storytelling, RP and good times.

My fiance on the other hand see's something akin to a mistress and gets quite annoyed that it often relegates her to 3rd on the wake up list (she grudgingly accepts the dog getting top billing).

Sometimes it's easy to pick on the negative aspects of things, to see the missteps or mistakes. But you know what? You head into something looking for the negative or expecting the bad then you can pretty much guarantee that you'll have a bad time. Head in with a positive outlook, look for the positive and the humour and you'll have a great time.

So kick back, remember it's about everyone rather than someone and have a good time - That's why the staff are here, why the servers been here for so long and why I hope it continues to bother my missus with it's importance to me for the foreseeable future.

[Mournas]

I've had my fair share of gripes with Sundren. Hell, I am certain that most of the staff hate me, and I have come to terms with that (hopefully they have as well). Yet here I am still playing.

The question is why do I still play? The answer is quite simple - Sundren is fun. This is what a video game should be and as players it is our responsibility to have fun. Sure there are newer, shinier, and more polished games that are available for purchase but that's not why we play NWN2 multiplayer is it? We do so because we yearn for something more than just a simple video game (that are generally way to easy these days). It's like life - if you want something then you have to earn it, you have to work for it (most of the times). If you feel entitled to a million bucks ... well you know what they say ... wish in one hand and s%#! in the other ...

If you want something to happen to your character then it's your responsibility as a player to make it happen. You also have to realize that actual changes take time, lots of time, and that's time that the staff is volunteering. They are volunteering to make the Sundren community and game play better and more fulfilling. At the very least, we as players should do the same: Make the community a better place for everyone not just our own characters. You may just find yourself having a butt-load of fun in the process.

[Torgar]

^ I'm glad someone understands this, nothing makes me more miffed when people complain as if we are expected and paid to entertain them. It's ridiculous. Not saying everyone acts like that but some people seem pretty godamn self-entitled for something they receive for FREE.

Wait wait, Saulus agreed with me? Ok, nevermind, I feel dirty now. I take it all back. Server sucks, I want to be the hero, ME ME ME ME ME.

All my <3 to Saulus.

[Laurk]

Juts a note, the reason ive decided to stick around rather than moving along, is that when I started, I had a couple people willing to actually make new PCs I could adventure and RP with and show me around.

When servers get old, the average level creeps up until a new player has no one to group with. The fact that people were willing to help me and give me like-level people to pal with added 1 to your player base. Keep it up and I think the server will do fine.

Its never a bad idea to keep one or two low level alts around to charm new players into staying.

[YakaryBovine]

After playing here for only two weeks, I have to question whether or not anything needs saving. It seems great to me, though admittedly I haven't tried to change the world yet.