PrC Review: Assassin

[roguethree]

Keep your real-world alignment musings out of my D&D!

[Doubtful]

If we're comparing Bond to DnD classes (and so help me Bob if this turns out like the Sorcerer/Jedi thread I'm going to lock and burn it) he's clearly an Dark Lantern.

Advancing in the class means being Evil, learning to use poisons, learning how to cripple or kill with stealthy ambush stuff and use magics to trick and confound their foes (It's really nice when people actually include that shit in their character, there's a hell of a lot more to the class than lol HiPS attack).

Leon is an example I often see for the 'Good Assassin', but it's clear from the set up that prior to the events in the film Leon has been working for the mob and is no angel, but finds a form of redemption in looking after lil Mathilda. Plus the entire absolute morality thing.

That said, Being evil doesn't mean not having humanity, or even think of themselves as evil.

[Standur]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaizen
Are you a sniper in a legitmate, government sanctioned military following the rules of War as outlined by a previously agreed pact, against an opposing force that you have declared war against?

Or are you a sniper putting a 7.62 through someone's head as they walk out of their office because someone paid you 200$ to do so?

It's all context. And the assassin falls under the 'i'm evil and murder people for money' context. However, if Sundren did not have the DM special feat that requries you to kill for money, I'd argue that you could be a neutral assassin all day long.

Okay. By your logic the government sniper sits perfectly at lawful evil; Legimately sanctioned to perform acts of great evil.

As you said. Context

I do so feel a Hitman of Helm coming on.

[Twisted-Indoctrine]

Evil is, to anyone but a paladin, very often seen as necessary in D&D, if it wasn't there wouldn't be so much of it.

People need to stop thinking evil in retarded black and white terms and more level-headed ones. If I have any gripe with Evil being portrayed in role-playing games it's that it's always so... grandiose. It's always some bad ass force of awesome that just seems to oppose the bad ass force of awesome on the flip side of the coin.

It gets to the point where the true horror of evil becomes lost like background noise drowned out by the screaming bands of stupid evil guys. The real horror of evil, I think in real life and I personally believe is also more satisfying when portrayed as such in fiction, is not that it's so damned big, or bad ass, or mean... It's that it's literally everywhere. And most people don't care, or accept it as necessary because they're socially conditioned to do so.

The prevalence of petty evil, just simple cruelty and apathy in the face of it is not nearly played up enough. So many villains want to achieve this and that for their God to fit into whatever vision they have that it just gets tiresome. It's always satisfying to see the real evil come out from time to time. Not the people who have a vision for the world, not the people who are diametrically opposed to so and so, no, I mean the petty, malicious douche bag who's only in it for himself while he listens to euro-trance really really loud in his Porsche that he bought after selling information about the UN relief efforts' storehouse location to some equally petty douche bag warlord in some backwater country.

Evil doesn't always have to be some all prevalent force of opposition to good. Hell, it shouldn't be, it seems boring and stupid. It takes so little to portray it more convincingly, and more satisfyingly. And there are few better ways of doing this than the exchange of money.

The assassin is an evil person not because of some high-on-the-sky deity fills his head with instructions, or because he has some super stupid scheme of the month that will be foiled by the local band of heroes like clockwork in some children's serial cartoon... He's evil because people are numbers to him. He's evil because he's callous and greedy and cruel for the sake of increasing his own numbers, as though money were some sort of sick measure of worth. And if he's good at it, the worst part is, he's the kind of evil that you find everywhere.

Sure, you can use the class mechanically to represent other things, patriotic assassins, religious fanatics, and so forth, but when you get right down to it you know the kind of person this class represents. The mechanics might work well to represent others but the core archetype is a person who has sold out and just stopped giving a damn about the welfare of others - even if he struggles with that identity or maybe even hates himself for it (hell those are the kinds of things that make such a character interesting).

[Seheren]

Some of the greatest, most involved, proponents for Good, can/do infact commit evil in its name. Many may even be Evil aligned, simply for the way in which they enforce their views.

[greypawn]

people who debate good vs evil all the time need to shut up and play neutral.

[greypawn]

As an assassin player, and possibly one of the longest running assassin on the server, I have to say the role play potential for this is huge. And if you don't play an assassin as an assassin you are missing out on a lot of fun. Most other assassins I have run into do it for money. "Kill for coin." Really sort of a cool traditional stance to it. And there is even a faction for this sort of mindset with rogue like gear (Eboncoin). Figuring out the reason your character performs such an evil act is great role play potential to begin with. For example, those who have met mine find out shortly that he kills for his god, Bane. He is very much a religious fanatical sort of assassin, a zealot. You can take the fanatical stance for other things besides religion though. Perhaps fanatical for the law and join the legion? Go a sort of Judge Dread on us. Anybody who plays this class, I'd suggest trying to answer these questions when drawing up the character: Why do you kill? What/who do you kill for? What is your ideal target?

Your character is also well trained in poisons, and if you roll play that out all the better. Role playing out your feats is always fun. I actually have had apprentices in the past and the first thing I always tell them to do is start sampling poisons daily to have their person become more use to this. I let them know, yes, they will get ill to it at first but in the long run it will pay off. And such role play has always been a blast.

If you like playing evil, if you like stealth, you'll like the assassin class.

[Kaizen]

Okay. By your logic the government sniper sits perfectly at lawful evil; Legimately sanctioned to perform acts of great evil.

As you said. Context

I didn't say they couldn't be. The government sniper can be of any alignment; however, the kill-for-money assassin is always evil. At least in the Cosmic standard.

Assassins being non-Evil doesn't make sense in a Cosmic Standard (under most standards..) system, but could conceivably be permitted in Moral Relativity. If they're, you know, assassins, and not just rogues who paralyze and occasionally use poison. There's nothing inherently evil about paralyzing people (Wizards can do it), but the intent may be so mean-spirited that you could conceivably get Evil points for it. Good-aligned characters are still allowed to use almost every trick at their disposal when engaged in deadly combat, however, and that includes stabbing someone so they lose control of their body. It would probably be Evil of them to go on to kill them while they are helpless, but stabs that paralyze could be used for non-lethal takedowns (even if it is painful) or simply removing someone from the fight while other guys are dealt with, then turning to them once the paralysis wears off. Poison, however, is generally non-Good. It doesn't get you Evil points, but a Paladin and other righteously-empowered holy badasses aren't allowed to use it.

On the flip side, while Assassins are technically magical, as far as their spellbook is concerned, I don't think there's anything "granted" about their magical powers in the forgotten realms that would imply an entity refuses to let you cast Invisibility if you're too nice, and certainly not anything that would stop your Death Attack from functioning, since that should be completely mundane.

[Mournas]

This is a touchy subject to me as a Bounty Hunter can go out a kill people for money, but since they were branded by the law as "criminals" the bounty hunter is not evil? You can be Neutral and still be an assassin in my opinion. Same thing as being a bounty hunter just one is semi "legal" and the other is illegal.

[Mournas]

To be fair, in my previous post, I neglected to mention this one important fact. This is If you kill someone for the sole reason of personal enrichment that is simply an evil act. There is no way to justify this act as neutral or good.

[Muttley]

I play an Assasin/Rogue/Ranger/Wizard on another server. On that server you dont have to be evil (you can be any alignment Avenger Class anyone? [I think]). I do have, what i think, is valid RP reasons for her classes. She is a Wood Elf who grew up shunned by her peers. Naturally she has ranger abilities (IMHO) having grown up in the woods. And because her peers were always playing pranks and practical jokes on her, she learnt how to disable and neutralise these pranks. The Assasin part, to me at least, is just how she has become very good and efficient at killing (from a mechanical perspective). One could argue that she is now faster and more efficient (humane) at killing. Which to me can be, depending on how you look at it, in line with a Rangers ethos. Now as for the Wizard class, thats just curiosity about magic on her part (RP wise) so she has a few levels in that too. I tend to take the classes on a mix mechanical and RP level. Im by no means a power builder. I just look at it mechanically in regards to her having Assasin levels, and RP her the way she is. An elf, who is very good at surviving the wilds, and anything that it may throw at her, with a curiosity fo magic.

Just my 2 pence worth anyways. Im not saying its right or wrong. I can see both sides of an argument.

Cheers
Muttley

[GodBeastX]

As I said in another alignment thread, you can be a good assassin, you just can't progress as one. Nothing like being a hired hitman and finding Jesus so you can't be driven to do it anymore

Assassins focus on death and taking lives through dirty means (Poisons, dark spells, etc). If I named the class "Dark Killer" I doubt all this discussion would pop up every other month on the forums.

I'll just say it here, any alignment restricted class is probably going to remain alignment restricted. If you want to behave as a bubbly happy person, just imagine every time you kill someone with your assassin abilities you're tormenting them and it's an evil deed, then you'll have less of a problem in your RP I don't know where all this "I'm evil, so I have to be grimdark minded" crap came into D&D. Some of the nicest people in the world are probably thoroughly evil.

I think it really comes down to how death attack was implemented in NWN that makes assassin so wierd.

[pidcocjn]

I don't know where all this "I'm evil, so I have to be grimdark minded" crap came into D&D. Some of the nicest people in the world are probably thoroughly evil.

This. One thousand times, this.

[Kitsunestume]

I don't know where all this "I'm evil, so I have to be grimdark minded" crap came into D&D. Some of the nicest people in the world are probably thoroughly evil.

Agreed.

Kit is quite happy to be nice to almost anyone, and has on more than one occasion been accused of having 'the blackest soul [Insert wandering paladin] has ever encountered'. Being nice is the best disguise ever!

[Memnoch1962]

I have waited for the assassin thread to start, and dammit I'm late on the forum to get into it. But anyway, a lot of you bring up good points. What I found the most dissapointing was that instead of focusing on the assassin and his/her abilities, the thread became another alignment discussion. I feel an assassin is probably one of the most difficult classes to RP. Given the type of armor and clothing that is given to assassin class in NWN, all assassins look evil to begin with. Why does everything have to be black, hooded, masked etc...?? On the alignment side, I dont think assassins HAVE to be evil, but I think they should be. Arguements have been made that fighters and other classes mention earlier in this thread were trained killers, that is true. While the assassin is also a trained killer he/she does more than just kill. They have to plan the kill, stalk the victim (sometimes for days) use their training to the utmost to kill thier mark. When the killing is done using this method its more than a kill, it becomes premeditated murder. That is why the assassin SHOULD be evil. If someone uses the assassin skills (HiPS, death attack, crippling strike etc) just to kill as a fighter would kill in a melee fight then they are not playing thier character as an assassin. Assassins can be part of groups, but for the most part they are loners, they do their job alone. Period. Being that detached from society can make a persons soul dark (evil). Perhaps they wish they can be part of society but just knowing that they can never be accepted makes them even more alone. I suppose the way I play my assassin is like this. Wanting to be accepted and knowing that he cannot. His life is one of loneliness and darkness.. only in the darkness is he truly in his element. An assassin really has no friends, just aquaintances and they are usually about business. Are assassins evil, you bet your ass. Should you trust them? Never. Does society need them? Yes. Will you ever encounter one? Probably. Will you know he's coming? I doubt it. Should you be afraid? What do you think?

Played correctly Assassins are very dangerous.

Just my thoughts..