Some upcomming changes and some clarification

[GodBeastX]

Also if anyone knows of any fortitude save spells that are affecting undead, let me know.

[Lothoir]

If undead are going be made immune to the vast majority of fort save spells, would you consider setting the Con of all vampires to 10 and making them unable to raise their Con through spell or items, to simulate their lack of a Constitution score?

[richardleitch5]

Is this metagaming?

Vampires with pale skin have been raising/scaring the hell out of people, so in turn, the people distrust anything that might resemble anything remotely vampire-ish. ie, pale skin, creepy aura, ridiculously good looks.

Carissa was a Selune cleric with very pale skin and a dislike for the sun (cant see the holy stars in the say) and was accused of being a vampire every now and then. but no one did more than say "hey you a vamp or what?"

as for my other Pale charicter, well the true vamps skin look more gray so she gets around ok. Maybe this would make people read or even work on haveing a description.

[Cornuto]

Also if anyone knows of any fortitude save spells that are affecting undead, let me know.

Disintegrate: Though I'm not sure why being undead would stop this spell.
Extract Water Elemental: Not sure if this works, but I don't see any reason it shouldn't.
Greater Shout: Fort save or deafened.
Burst of Glacial Wrath: Fort save for 1/2 damage, no-one ever uses this lame spell anyway.

Hypothermia and the G. Creeping Cold line.

[Kaizen]

implosion.

ask Clive.

edit: lol

[Kaeldorn]

Vampires are not supposed to be immune to all fortitude based spells. The ones they can be affected by should actually be even worse for them than they already are, since they should also get their con permanently set to 10 and impossible to modify by items or whatever else.

If you look at Implosion, for instance:

http://dmreference.com/SRD/Magic/Spe.../Implosion.htm
Implosion has no effect on creatures in gaseous form or on incorporeal creatures.

Nowhere does it say it has no effect on undead. They do have a body.


"In the third edition of the game, all undead have darkvision out to sixty feet. Undead have a wide array of immunities, including being immune to: all mind-affecting effects, poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, and death effects. They are also not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability drain, or energy drain. Most Dungeons & Dragons undead can be "turned" (driven away) or destroyed by a good cleric, and rebuked (forced to cower) or bolstered by an evil cleric."

Marked in bold are the (potentially) fort-based effects they should be immune to. Blindness and deafness aren't among them either (though naturally, skeletons would be immune to those effects because they simply don't have eardrums or eyes).


Besides, it's not like they need help as it is (except for the three changes already posted at the start of this thread, which were more griefing cheap shot tactics/metagame issues).

[Cornuto]

If we're setting vampires to PnP status, we should consider insta-death if they fail a reflex save for Sunburst.

[Seheren]

And I am pretty sure they have no con and all levels are d12 if I remember right. So then everyone would want a d12 sorc.

edit: yes as per Fang and Fury, it seems that all levels of Vampire end up d12

[Kaizen]

If you look at Implosion, for instance:

http://dmreference.com/SRD/Magic/Spe.../Implosion.htm
Implosion has no effect on creatures in gaseous form or on incorporeal creatures.

Nowhere does it say it has no effect on undead. They do have a body.

I was being facetious.

If we're setting vampires to PnP status, we should consider insta-death if they fail a reflex save for Sunburst.

I think they are, pkisawesome's Druid blew up Grann with one.

[GodBeastX]

Essentially in P&P undead are immune to Fort Save spells unless otherwise specified to affect creatures of their type or objects. For example, disintegrate WILL affect undead because it works on objects. Implosion will work on ANY corporeal creature (This includes undead). Extract water elemental I don't know the P&P rule on it, but it can work since less work = okay with me and they do have blood in themselves so, whatever. Burst of glacial wrath is cold, undead tend to be resistent to cold anyway, so whatever. Greater Shout affects objects, but they're supposed to roll reflex instead of fort, so I can change that to be correct.

Undead will keep their CON scores because they are supposed to be d12 hitdice otherwise, so it can stay as is.

Disintegrate IS supposed to work on Undead, because it works on objects.

[GodBeastX]

If we're setting vampires to PnP status, we should consider insta-death if they fail a reflex save for Sunburst.

Sunburst does insta kill them, as well as master of radiance sun beam. We also have a flag we can put on other creatures that are supposed to be killed by sunlight spells, like wraiths, spectres, NPC vamps, fungus, oozes, etc.

[Kaeldorn]

Disintegrate IS supposed to work on Undead, because it works on objects.

Was that for emphasis?

The d12 thing is indeed true, and in NWN2 that might be a bit more of an advantage than it would be if HP were rolled. So the trade-off to keep normal hit dice +con is OK.

Anyways, seems fair enough. Though I'm mildly curious what book the ruling that undead are immune to fort save based spells comes from. Couldn't find it in Libris Mortis (though granted, I only skimmed over the parts where I thought it could be).

[Kaizen]

We also have a flag we can put on other creatures that are supposed to be killed by sunlight spells

should throw Dain in there, on account of being emo.

[GodBeastX]

Was that for emphasis?

The d12 thing is indeed true, and in NWN2 that might be a bit more of an advantage than it would be if HP were rolled. So the trade-off to keep normal hit dice +con is OK.

Anyways, seems fair enough. Though I'm mildly curious what book the ruling that undead are immune to fort save based spells comes from. Couldn't find it in Libris Mortis (though granted, I only skimmed over the parts where I thought it could be).

I think it's in the appendix of the monster manual that talks about the Undead Type. Here's an excerpt from the SRD on it:

Traits
An undead creature possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).

• No Constitution score.
• Darkvision out to 60 feet.
• Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).
• Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, and death effects.
• Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability drain, or energy drain. Immune to damage to its physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), as well as to fatigue and exhaustion effects.
• Cannot heal damage on its own if it has no Intelligence score, although it can be healed. Negative energy (such as an inflict spell) can heal undead creatures. The fast healing special quality works regardless of the creature’s Intelligence score.
• Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless).
• Uses its Charisma modifier for Concentration checks.
• Not at risk of death from massive damage, but when reduced to 0 hit points or less, it is immediately destroyed.
  
• Not affected by raise dead and reincarnate spells or abilities. Resurrection and true resurrection can affect undead creatures. These spells turn undead creatures back into the living creatures they were before becoming undead.
• Proficient with its natural weapons, all simple weapons, and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
• Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Undead not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Undead are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
• Undead do not breathe, eat, or sleep.

[Thief Of Navarre]

I think it's in the appendix of the monster manual that talks about the Undead Type. Here's an excerpt from the SRD on it:

Sweet, resurrection makes vampires mortal again. Im rolling cleric and resurrecting every single one of their sorry asses!