Should Ichbin Perma Die!?

[GodBeastX]

Characters like these are symptoms of a problem I call "Playing against the server instead of with the server".

"He's going to metagame!"

How do you know? Hmmm? You don't, so obviously you have an OOC stand-offish opinion before the person has even done anything wrong. This is a community of players, this isn't WoW. You're all in the same bucket of toys and should be playing together. Some days you're the cops and some days you're the robbers, but in the end we should all be cool with each other.


All this BS with attitudes towards people who've done nothing to get it just because somewhere down the line some guy metagamed and rubbed you wrong doesn't warrant the treatment of the person you're going to impose your need to kill on.

Statements like "Finally someone has the balls to kill someone!" Make me vomit. I could honestly make all the evils in Sundren just come down on these PCs and wipe them out, but that wouldn't be "Fair" would it? So why should you all be treating other PC's that way? We extended curtesies to you by allowing build up to attacks, and villains, dropping small hints and spoilers, letting you get ready to confront and then finally having a chance at victory, but you guys go to others and say "I'm more powerful, you have no chance, but I don't give a shit, die!"

Screw that, it's childish. I don't think I'd even make an murdering psycho and not ask someone "You mind if I RP out murdering your char? I'm looking for some victims to get some story going for this pc. It won't be a permadeath or anything." I see people even agreeing to be slaves for Drow which is much worse than being a victim of a raving lunatic.

Seriously, knock this junk off.

[CrimsonTears]

If there is in character hapopennings, like enraging the armed man(or woman) there should be no reason to ask permission to kill, ooc warnings or asking ooc permission seems...

That is fair enough when done right. Most of the time, tho, the case is more like:

Low level: "Why should I do X because you're telling me? Leave me be."
High level: "You dare disobey me? Die!"

People talk about "realism" and the like. Well, how "realistic" it is to go murdering people in cold blood because they said something you don't like? Give a punch to the face, grab their neck and squeeze, do what real people would do when mad. Murdering someone because they talked back to you is as stupid and "senseless PKg" as doing it without a reason.

[valenator]

-ALL- PVP must have a reason. And to expand upon this, all PVP must have a warning IC or OOC. OOC warnings are -not- to be acted upon IC. The reason is for validation of RP intent. Why the warnings? To validate intent of RP reason. I recommend you screenshot your warnings in case disputes occur. Disputes should not occur if people understand the rules. You are not allowed to tell someone they can't attack if they give proper warning.

I want people to know they have a possibility of being attacked -before- they are attacked. If you attack someone THEN rp or warn, you broke the rules, clear and simple.

It's a little redundant, given what's been written before, but this is the exact rule. If you're going to kill someone, he or she must be informed of it one way or another. I've never been one to get my jollies from randomly killing other people's PC's, but meh.

Permadeath pwns.

[thorandike]

A well-played evil character can provide fun for others, while a not-as-well-played evil PC will just cause others grief. I have no idea which one Ichbin (the character) is and I am not starting that debate here...

The question is just for Ichbin (the player) to consider - is he getting enjoyment from the character and are his interactions with other players fun for them both? If so, then I see no reason for him to kill off the character. A well-played evil character can be a nice contrast to all the good-alligned ones - but they are not easy to play.

[Vichtor]

Popping in and killing someone with no alert is against server rules period. End of discussion. If someone metagames it, take a screenshot of their buffing, pass to help forums, and they'll likely lose XP.

If IC stuff leads up to the killing, obviously the person saw it coming since they drew you into the conflict.

Do like I do. Let them buff while you walk away (while keeping them hostile). Leave them Hostile while you take a stroll around the world, then hunt them down a half-hour or more later, and slaughter them. Let them sweat it. If they log...fine...wait. If they get people to help them...perfect...wait.

Patience, discipline. These are the trademarks that seperate a true Killer from a murderer.

[Anks]

Is there a I dont care Option, The last option dosent really suit what I need

[VanillaRose]

That is fair enough when done right. Most of the time, tho, the case is more like:

Low level: "Why should I do X because you're telling me? Leave me be."
High level: "You dare disobey me? Die!"

People talk about "realism" and the like. Well, how "realistic" it is to go murdering people in cold blood because they said something you don't like? Give a punch to the face, grab their neck and squeeze, do what real people would do when mad. Murdering someone because they talked back to you is as stupid and "senseless PKg" as doing it without a reason.

One of my first experiences as a new player to Sundren was a situation exactly like this. Unfortunately, it did leave me with a very bitter feeling. I wish warnings had been required when that situation occurred, but alas.

Conflict is a vital part of stories, but killing someone is not always a vital part of conflict.

[InquisitorFury]

In this instant (I watched). It was simply two level 3's fighting mobs and in comes giant tentacle spell, killing them. Then the assaulter leaves.

.... Whats the rp in that?

Infact, I have been on my Fighter and I had Ichbin come out of no where and cast this spell on me, then run. When my character chased him down and he realised he was gonna die he put on the OOC waterworks, saying it was an accedent etc. Now I have been witnessing the same "accidents" being inflicted on other characters and frankly I smell bullshit.

Thumbs down, off with his head.

[Anks]

I have heard of that happening But As stated before. I need another option, I dont want him to leave the server. That would be rude

[GodBeastX]

One of my first experiences as a new player to Sundren was a situation exactly like this. Unfortunately, it did leave me with a very bitter feeling. I wish warnings had been required when that situation occurred, but alas.

Conflict is a vital part of stories, but killing someone is not always a vital part of conflict.

That's what we're trying to slam into people's heads. Exactly what you're saying.

I remember a joke on a TV show where they went into the "Worst Bar in the city". In the background some guy yells out "What do you mean thank you?!?!" And beats another guy's face in. As retarded as that is, that's how some people act on Sundren. I'm only sad I don't always be on as a DM in the spot where it happens

[CrimsonTears]

One of my first experiences as a new player to Sundren was a situation exactly like this. Unfortunately, it did leave me with a very bitter feeling. I wish warnings had been required when that situation occurred, but alas.

Conflict is a vital part of stories, but killing someone is not always a vital part of conflict.

Just don't let something stupid like that make you leave or the like

[Ven The Jen]

In this instant (I watched). It was simply two level 3's fighting mobs and in comes giant tentacle spell, killing them. Then the assaulter leaves.

.... Whats the rp in that?

Infact, I have been on my Fighter and I had Ichbin come out of no where and cast this spell on me, then run. When my character chased him down and he realised he was gonna die he put on the OOC waterworks, saying it was an accedent etc. Now I have been witnessing the same "accidents" being inflicted on other characters and frankly I smell bullshit.

Thumbs down, off with his head.

I was the victim for that. If it's when I think, I didn't mind. I got warning beforehand. What's the deal? You don't complain when the clerics of Bane attack you. Why is a player any different? They're both evilish humans. Do the clerics of Bane ask for permission and type you out a good long RP reason before hand?

Oh - if Mr. DM's make me sick reply was directed at me congratulating Ichbin's character well, yeah sure. Every major evil in the world could do that. Aint they a bit above me though? Aren't most of the major evils self contained in research, plotting, ruling or otherwise indisposed? I can't think of a reason that they would come to me and kill me on the spot. I can think of reasons why a character would. Heck, I just cleaved through several humans to get there. Why stop and give it thought when a player attacks me?

He--ll... The first time he attacked my druid was basically...
Ichbin: *He approaches*
Vaneniel: *IC rude to his character*
Ichbin: *Feelings are mutual*
Vaneniel: *Threaten*
Ichbin: *Double threaten! Magical spookyness*
Vaneniel: *Insult some more*
Ichbin: *Attack! Wolves and Spells!*
Vaneniel: *More wolves and spells - with weapons!*
Ichbin: *Dies*
Vaneniel: *Kicks body a few times and leaves*

Incase the vomity comment was directed at me, niiiice... I don't say things for no reason and I am a roleplayer. Unfortunently, incase anyone could have taken that the wrong way, I'll just say, I look at situation in character. As such I do not treat NPCs and PCs differently. When I get attacked by one and killed - HEY UP - I don't go OMG lamer...
If someone beat me up in a back alley the last thing I would think is, GOD he can't RP!
I just killed people, goblins and cultists, to get here. They attack on sight. What's unusual about another one? Ichbin's playing style arguably (And I argue over it IC) has more validity in this world then all those paladins I've seen murder, stab in the back and lead people to battle and loot the bodies after.

[InquisitorFury]

I do not think this is the same situation. Also... the big difference is the Clerics of Bane and the goblins are not level 9.

*he shrugs* IC reactions to IC actions. It just looked like people were killed for no good reason.

[Kaldaris]

The only thing I do not understand in this thread is.

Why are you asking other people if he should be permanently dead?

The decision to permakill your own character should be your own decision, provided you aren't doing anything drastically retarded. ( Then it becomes our decision too. )

[Satoshi]

Honestly, if my duergar ever thought he had a chance of taking down a lone traveller, he'd have several scrolls prepared to protect himself, probably drop a 'sleep' spell on the victim so they wouldn't know who attacked them, and try to Coup De Grace the bastard before they even have a chance. Coincidentally, this is the same style he uses when hunting other types of humans or humanoids- bandits, goblins, dwaves, humans. Sadly, elves are immune to sleep. ;.;

I've also been the point of internal betrayal before. The player knew it was coming, though, and it was actually very fun- I told him I was going to 'cast some spells' on him. He saved against the darker effects, but my true strike hideous blow out of nowhere still set the battle in my advantage.

Case in point- I'll probably give some sort of OOC warning, even though I don't think it should be an absolute necessary (we're in a world where anyone can betray you, not just drow and duergar). How we react to that IC, not OOC, is what matters. IC actions should not be a basis for out of character conflict. I've had PnP games where characters attack other characters without warning. It happens, especially with NE and CE characters who are looking to make a little extra gold off of your equipment/soul/organs.