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A Treatise on Server Realism

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  • A Treatise on Server Realism

    Let me start by saying I am accusing no one of any misdeed here. I am not going to name names, nor even insinuate or implicate anyone in anything. This is not an accusal, a demand, or even a call for action. This is merely an opinion. A statement of what I have witnessed, and would like to hear the player opinions on what I am about to discuss. If I see a single accusation fly, discussion ends. Period.

    I would like to talk about what I have tentatively called 'Server Realism.' What I mean by this, is the In Character implications of the actions players take, and how such actions coincide with what would be realistically plausible in a given scenario.

    I have witnessed characters grouping up when they would hardly be allies. I have witnessed players use their alts with each other to accomplish goals for their other characters, such as using an alt to craft an item for another player's character, even though to the two characters have never met, or indeed, would be enemies. I have seen masked individuals dash down the Trade Tier streets, not giving any thought at all to the City Guards that stand at every street corner. I have watched an Enlarged character walk into the Exigo Trading House to sell loot. I have watched a character walk into a tavern full of commoners with an undead cohort following behind them.

    Some of these are blatant faults. Some of these are more muddled. How far are we willing to take such things for the sake of realism and RP? When the server is near empty, do our inhibitions against grouping with our enemies drop? When no DM is on, is it okay to walk down the city streets with a mask or undead in tow? With how rare crafters can be, is it okay to craft items with your real life friends on your alts? What is the limit?

    I understand that some things must be taken with a grain of salt and not every single thing can be realistic. Grinding the same areas over and over again is hardly realistic, but we accept it as part of the game. Can the same be likewise said for some of the above offenses?

    My primary gripe with much of this, is that often realism is eschewed in favor of easy playing, but it can create some terrible hypocrisies. Take the masked character for instance:

    A masked character wishes to hide his or her identity, to be mysterious, or what have you. Often they are villains who have been identified and do not wish to be attacked on sight by other players. They grow bored of being isolated as a villain, and so don a disguise so they can go RP. What this actually does is cheapen the whole character and the experience. The player wants the advantages of being masked (unidentified, capable of more RP), without the drawbacks (being unable to enter civilized zones realistically, getting recognized and attacked by good guys, being unable to use legitimate merchants). In essence, certain aspects of RP are forgotten in favor of ease of play. The player cites that he can wear a mask around the campfire when someone confronts him, but completely ignores all the NPC's he passes in the Trade Tier when no real player is around.

    Like I said, I do understand that it can be very difficult to do certain things realistically. No one wants to sit by themselves for hours hoping someone will RP with their masked PC. Everyone wants to be able to get nice crafted gear. No one wants to grind alone when the server is nearly empty. I understand this. I have done these very things myself, I will plainly admit. But I have seen so very much of it lately that I cannot help but stand up and take notice. What is limit here? What is reasonably acceptable OOC behavior and what is considered 'going too far?'

    I think my stance on this is pretty obvious, but I would like to hear other comments and opinions on this as well.

    I will remind you once again that there are to be no accusations or criticism of other players of any kind here. If I see anything at all even hinting at such negative comments I will delete the posts myself.
    The poetry that comes from the squaring off between;
    and the circling is worth it, finding beauty in the dissonance.

  • #2
    I can agree with most of your post (i think i was guilty for all of it), P, buuuuut

    As for masked characters going to 'legitimate' merchants. The thing is, there is no 'illegitimate' merchant for the masked character to go to instead.

    Unless you play a Black Hand, or Cartel. Which, to put it bluntly, people seem to think that that is the only type of evil which you're allowed to play.

    God forbid you're neutral.

    Some parts of the world are also inaccesible for masked people - Virdale comes to mind, as you have to cross through a Legion camp. Most people would say that that is not the only entrance into the forest (it isn't) but must go through because of the game mechanic.
    Originally posted by ThePaganKing
    So, the roguethree bootlickers strike again.

    Comment


    • #3
      I agree with most of the post as well. I do not have a PC that I keep masked but if I did I would be upset that there are not any shady merchants to go to. I don't even try to craft because the system is too complicated to use. I have bought items made by other PCs before. That is my two sense.
      Active Characters
      Hashart Datton- Marshal of the Black Hand
      Oliver Ironhide- Guardian
      Lynk Frost-Champion of Bane
      Dorin Hammond- Scout
      Seith Ronson- Master of War
      "A system of morality which is based on relative emotional values is a mere illusion, a thoroughly vulgar conception which has nothing sound in it and nothing true."
      Socrates
      sigpic

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      • #4
        Some of those points I've always been more understanding towards, others I've never really understood.

        For the players grouping with one another, when they would otherwise be enemies, I really can't wrap my head around.
        The only time I've done something similar to this is before my character knew that the opposing character in question, was infact, a member of a hostile faction. After that they naturally broke all friendly ties and continued to wail/debate/argue/murder one another.
        Grouping with your enemies for the sake of OOC advancement seems like a terrific way to kill roleplay on the server, at least for me, as it's more effective for breaking any sense of immersion than even blurry sending me 'giggity' tells every four seconds. (<3)

        The crafting, by my opinion, is slightly less straightforward.
        But that's because of how I've always approached it IC.
        If I know a friend has a character that can craft something I need, I don't just shoot him an OOC tell asking him to make it.
        I arrange some sort of plausible connection to my character having heard that his can create the item in question, and at the very least, provide the materials needed.
        Just an example of where my own characters managed to have something crafted despite being a Black Hand most-wanted, I had him look up one of the more renown crafters, state the need, bluff'ed my way past the name and managed to walk out before he ever had a chance to connect the face with the rumors.
        I mean, unless you're absurdly well known and everyone in Sundren instantly knows your face.
        There are limits to how far you can go in those situations, but at the very least if you haven't met each other yet, make it a business proposition and leave it at that.

        As for the mask in the city, I've definitely done it too, but more out of thoughtlessness than anything else.
        If I'm engaged in RP, or happen to notice that theres someone else in the district, then I quickly take it off.
        If I was an evil character trying to sneak past the guards, I'd probably have more luck without a mask and trying to blend into the crowd than if I casually strolled around with it on.
        And hey, if you get caught, you've probably rolled a cleric anyways.
        Ethreal your ass out of there!

        Just personal opinions.
        "Sir, we're surrounded!" "Excellent! Now we can attack in any direction."


        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Vaelek View Post
          And hey, if you get caught, you've probably rolled a cleric anyways. Ethreal your ass out of there!

          i lol'd.
          Originally posted by ThePaganKing
          So, the roguethree bootlickers strike again.

          Comment


          • #6
            Honestly, the partying with those you should not hang with doesn't bother me too bad. Unless they are known or dressed in blatantly obvious faction clothing, I usually don't have a clue what faction they are (IC at least). And, with the low server population I have seen lately, it is pretty much a necessity (unless you really like hanging by the fire...or enclave stairs...all alone). And, to be blunt about it, I'd be bored out of my freakin skull if not for going out with people my toon probably shouldn't. Very few of my usual toons are casters, so I HAVE to party with someone. Since so many have decided to go evil lately, kinda makes it tough not to hang with those you normally wouldn't even talk to.

            The mask thing REALLY annoys me. I tend to (OOCly) just write off people that ignore all the NPC guards and citizens they walk by masked if it is pointed out to them. I have had numerous arguments (IC) with those that refuse to unmask in towns (especially Aquor when I am playing Ursus) and I have just had enough with even trying. Same with the walking around with summoned undead and expecting to not get assaulted by "good" characters or guards. Do it enough and I'll just ignore your existence OOCly.

            Crafting doesn't bother me at all. It is commonly done through another toon that could easily have heard of the crafting skills of your toon, so I see it as simply a middle man type thing. With so few crafters/enchanters on much, it is another of those necessities.

            This is a game. I play to have a little fun and forget the craptastic day I may have had at work. If the only way I can do something fun and survive is to team up with some evil bastages and make stuff for my OOC buds, I figure I'll keep doing it...until I am specifically told to stop by staff.
            Ursus Ahrahl: Vengeful Desert Warrior (http://www.sundren.org/wiki/index.php?title=Ursus_Ahrahl)
            Zaphram Babblerocks: Silly Gnome Tinkerer
            Ronon Darkholme: Eye and ear of the Night Watch of Kelemvor's Eternal Order (http://www.sundren.org/wiki/index.ph...onon_Darkholme)
            Jakomyn Moriarty: Misunderstood Calishite mage (http://www.sundren.org/wiki/index.php?title=Jakomyn_Moriarty)
            Turin Greyhold: Ex-mercenary paladin of Torm (http://www.sundren.org/wiki/index.ph...reyhold,_Turin)
            Alexandros Pentacost: 1/2 Orc Cleric of the Red Knight
            "Remember, Private..Friendly Fire is not a nice warm place you and your hippy buddies sit around at night toasting marshmallows and singing Kumbaya." --Me to one of my troops way back when

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            • #7
              As for walking around with summons. I do this outside town if looking for action, definitely a shortcut to a fight usually. It pretty much forces other characters to act since it is such a blatant violation of Sundren's laws. But walking through town. No that doesn't make any sense at all.
              And uh hmmm, yeah the undead in the inn thing. I'll take the blame for that one. Was being sloppy thinking no one was around and wanting to run in and pay for a room. I'll take the slap upside the head for that one.

              Comment


              • #8
                Take your masks off, put your weapons away, don't walk around with undead/jungle cats, don't pass gear, don't group with people it doesn't make sense to group with, and I can think of three general shady merchants off the top of my head.

                This is a role-play server, not World of Sundrencraft, so role play. Playing an evil pc? Suck it up, it's supposed to be hard. Playing a paladin around a bunch of morally gray/abominable characters? You picked the paladin; deal with it.
                Originally posted by Cornuto
                Glad everyone's being extra fucking ridiculous today.

                Comment


                • #9
                  +1 to roguethree.

                  Although I like my mask. And when going through populated areas with it on, I sneak. You know, like an assassin would.

                  After the game, the king and the pawn go into the same box.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    To clarify a touch. Not all mask wearing, summoning and grouping with strangers is a bad RP.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Always a little surprising how willing people are to trust their lives to people they just met and induct them into their little adventuring band.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Well, if you're in the middle of a dungeon filled with Ogres, joining forces will the well-armed stranger might not be such a bad idea. I mean, the ogres want you both dead and you both want to get out of there allies.

                        I remember Maia approaching people she saw fighting in the woods when she was less high level and go "Hey, you're killing gnolls? I approve! How about I lend my bow to your efforts?" I really don't think it's that meta or bad to go for that angle.
                        Maia Nanethiel ~ Moon Elf Female Ranger

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by roguethree View Post
                          don't group with people it doesn't make sense to group with.
                          This is gray area. Without meta gaming most people would have no idea who is in what faction. Knowingly or not you have been in parties with several of my characters that were blatantly evil. This will happen, and with so few players you cant expect everyone to be sticklers about it. I mean you cant just claim knowledge about who's who because you've been around the block and know who is playing what faction. Not everyone is going to play 20 questions either. You are about to do something dangerous and see a mercenary looking guy sharpening his sword. You just ask him to help and part ways after, no questions.

                          Masks? Some people have good reason ((RP wise)) to wear them and just forget in towns, dont throw a fit just shoot a friendly tell or just start some RP about it. If you want to ignore it, thats fine too. Just there is no reason to get worked up about masks unless someone is being unreasonable ((which can happen)).

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            About the masks - I would say, that if you wear the mask in the middle of the city it is not good, but seriously - is hood a mask? For example Aquor, it's cold, snowy place, so why not to wear a hood what helps you to avoid the snow? And the scarf too, for the same reason. And when it rains? If the guard asks you to show your face:

                            "Right, of course, here I am, miss "Important", happy? Can I put it on again, to avoid catching cold?"

                            How many citizens (NPC) would wear the hood for the same reason? Many in my opinion (I have in my head a picture of victorian ladies wearing the hoods quiet commonly). But, if you have the iron face mask, of the mask hiding your eyes, yes, that's a mask and it should not be tolerated.

                            About the joining characters from enemy factions, like it was already said, in most cases you don't have the knowledge about their faction.
                            Kili - mercenary of the Blackwood Company
                            Sile - impoverished free merchant, looking for her own happiness
                            Lindi - wandering bard and actress

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                            • #15
                              I'd say a hood and a mask (or a hood with a mask) are two different things. Some hoods hide your face quite well unless somebody is looking directly at your face. But i doubt a guard would care too much about a hood if you are not looking or acting suspicious.

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