Healing kits in the middle of combat?

[VanillaRose]

I do not see anything blatantly disbelievable about using a magical (as GBX pointed out) healing kit to tend wounds in combat.

[Cheatcake]

I dunno, I could see the magic making it heal as much as it does. But the way it works makes me think of Uber Nanomachines of Tissue Reconstruction +10

[Zoberraz]

Of course. Bandages are mighty gnome invention, second to the Fantabulous automated archery-targets.

[Ithildur]

Just a reminder, we're playing a DnD based game; no need to reinvent the wheel.

In 3rd edition DnD, there is no chance of failure for taking countless number of actions like drinking a potion in combat while getting hit, but there is a concentration check for complex and extremely precise actions like casting a spell. Meanwhile you get AOO for both types of activities in melee. There's a difference between actions like these two, in terms of gameplay dynamics/balance as well as consistency/realism to some degree. What is so badly broken about this part of the ruleset that the wheel needs to be reinvented? If drinking a potion should incur a concentration check, then logically so should almost every action that occurs when you get hit that has a chance of not ending up ... quite right.

Drawing a weapon: I get hit while doing it, fail concentration check, ouch... realisticly, I might drop the weapon
Taking a 5 foot step: I get hit, fail concentration check, ouch... lose my balance and maybe I fall on my butt
Nocking an arrow/loading a crossbow bolt: I get hit, disrupt my concentration, ow... maybe the bolt hits my face or I drop the arrow etc etc

No need to reinvent the wheel, unless the DM wants to tweak/house rules - and I doubt GBX is THAT much a masochist to add these kinds of things.

[Maxx Powers]

But shouldn't it be believeable fantasy?

With magic, monsters, invisible people, ethereal planes, and curses that change your gender?

[Cheatcake]

With magic, monsters, invisible people, ethereal planes, and curses that change your gender?

Like I said, believable fantasy. All that fits it Magical Kits can fit, too, but the general health of the populace would be awesome because of the cost of those little wonders It also leaves a question: where are the mundane bandages, just for stopping a bleeding?

[Ithildur]

With magic, monsters, invisible people, ethereal planes, and curses that change your gender?

It's the age old 'what is realism in fatansy/sci fi settings' question. It is a fantasy setting, where things happen that you don't normally see when you walk out of the house most days in RL. In that sense, realism in the sense of what you'd expect from say a game or setting based in say, WW2, does not apply.

However, there is still such a thing as consistency, a certain amount of believability that gives the imagination enough of an anchor on reality experiences that allows a reader to identify with the characters in a book to some degree, and players in a game setting to know 'well if I did x,y, and z, then probablyw a,b, and c would result because it's somewhat like that in real life' i.e. if I fire a ranged weapon from 20 feet away it might be a good idea, but if I fire a ranged weapons from 1 foot away it may be a different situation altogether, hence AOO for using ranged weapons in melee range.

That's what the game system tries to do, al beit the priority is fun over realism if it comes down to it; the guys that invented the game's roots were military game afficionados, and knew a lot of stuff about warfare perhaps, but were they actual military personel/experts in medieval combat? Likely not.

Then there's things that have little or no representation in the real world that is based purely on internal consistency and game balance and practicality, like... how the heck do you determine stats for a deep gnome? You don't base that directly on RL examples perhaps, but you go by certain standards and rules within the gamesetting itself; i.e. you make a cool interesting race and give it vey unique abilites, but you also keep it from becoming unbalancingly powerful by making it ECL3, and it's a small creaure so it has penalties that are consistent with the game systems own rules about small creatures, etc. some of which is STILL based on real world laws of physics; i.e. that's why a giant can wield a weapon that a gnome cannot-that's based on physics in the real world! That's the style/characteristic of DnD, as opposed to say the games where a gnome sized creature CAN and usually DOES wield a weapon that's 4 times bigger than itself.
So in a case like that, if you're playing the other game you say 'meh, who cares that the sword is four times too big? It's funny and kinda cool looking, let's go chop!' but if you're playing DnD you say 'nope, can't be done, no giant sized weapons for a gnome, it's against the rules and it's stupid, i.e. completely unrealistic and inconsistent within the style and nature of most DnD settings.

Now obviously, individual players and DMs can emphasize or deemphasize these aspects, make the setting more like RL or less, using house rules, modifications etc. Generally though, the rule of thumb is if you start tossing out too much of the consistency/realism, it often makes the setting the equivalent of living in a funhouse of mirrors; kinda fun at times and you never know what to expect perhaps, but you also get tired of nothing ever making a whole lot of sense/lacking coheriency - you wouldn't want to live there. On the other hand you make things where you have to have rules for using the toilet x number of times a day and you have to brush your teeth or suffer from dire cavities, that's obviously not fun either... you can live there perhaps but it'll be boring as not much would ever happen that's really interesting without getting bogged down by chickenshit.

That probably doesn't end this debate but just some things to chew on... always a fun topic, realism/believablity in fantasy.

[Red Monkey]

Pile-On!

*sniffs it, pokes it, pours hot sauce on it*
Totally useless, must be game mechanics.

When I want realism I leave my security level appropriate housing and go kick the jerk down the street in the shin. Now THAT'S entertainment my friends.

Although the entire discussion began with a feeling of psuedo-realism about using healing kits it sure seems to have gone into rules regarding "Splinters and the fingers that love them".

When Fleabite has a puncture wound he takes the chaw from his cheek and plugs the wound.....try and stop him. For slashes I cannot say it for fear of general disgust and blunt trauma just makes him cry. Just learn knock-down if you hate us pinch-healers. I don't give two shakes when something I fight gets healed in any fashion against anything I'm playing.

My Two Pence

[Maxx Powers]

Wow it was just an interjection, i didn't need a lecture on what a fantasy game is, i know that much. Not the reaction i expected...

Ok, so we even had a DM say that healing kits (with a +) are magical in nature. I'd say they also include bandages, but those are probably only used when given the take 20 (utilizing the full potential of the kit)

[Fizzer]

C'mon, lets just make them magical herb thingys and let the programmers develop other funkier stuff rather than waste their time on this...

*Zeb goes hunting for magical herbs to heal his companions wounds with healing kits...*

[Tratz]

I fail to see the difference between using healing kits and potions.

Healing kits don't break stealth, don't provoke an attack of oppertunity and have variable healing depending on the kit. Potions, however, have none of those perks.

Given that the process of properly treating, bandaging and mending wounds via a "healing kit" (to me, this implies field surgury tools, sutures, disinfectant and bandages) is much more intensive then swallowing a mouthful of fluid I would personally consider the use of in-combat healing kits to be exploitative in the very least. If you got away from a direct fight to quickly mend a fallen comrade, much like a medic, then that's a different story.

[Rannarix]

I think she means in terms of realism. Reach into your bag, pull out a potion, uncork, drink. All while someone is standing two feet in front of you while swinging a sword. No more realistic or likely than using healing kits, or casting spells. It's just how the game works.

This is a rather arbitraty debate You can't really defend one without seeing the faults of the others.