Next Update - Death Changes

[GodBeastX]

In an effort to make death a little less of a pain but still an effective deterrent there is a large change made to the death system.

Corpses from all dead players will be in there respective positions on module load. Players can pickup, drop, raise, and talk to NPCs to revive people who are dead but not online. When they return to the game they will recieve a message letting them know what occured and who revived them. This, we feel, will make it easier for higher level players in that they will not have to idle in the death area waiting for help. This also will allow good Samaritans the opportunity to treat bodies they come across.

Standard death penalties will still apply to those resurrected while offline. If you do not wish people to revive you while offline, toggle your resurrection status as usual. This toggle will now persist while you are offline.

Players can also get the location of their corpse or who is carrying it at the Spirit by checking corpse status.

Players will NOT be allowed to resurrect, pick up, or trade corpses of their own characters with another character they play. We have mechanics in place to track this. Anyone found attempting to do this may be subject to punishment under standard metagaming rules. Players found leading other players to their corpses will also be subject to punishment under metagaming rules.

Let's not spoil this for everyone people. Play within the rules.

[ReverberateEcho]

A couple questions. First, if someone picks up a corpse, could they potentially move it, drop it, and then it stays there? I could foresee some griefing with this, without the knowledge of the actual dead person, until the next time they check where their corpse is.

Such as, Paladin A kills Banite B. Paladin A is happy, Banite B is a little sad, but doesn't bear a grudge. But Banite B has din-din, so he logs off. Paladin A is a bit of an asshat, and mischievous. So, Paladin A gets the idea of taking the body and hiding it away in some remote corner of the world. Say, up in the mountains pass, in one of the random caves.

If this is possible, perhaps there could be some rule against that? While somewhat realistic that this could be done, it could effectively create some bad blood.

Secondly, will bodies never disappear, then? If not, is it possible there could be an over saturation of bodies in certain areas, then? Since sometimes a server will get a huge influx of new players that will rush newbie areas, die, and log never to be seen again (or to just create another character). Hopefully there will be enough kind souls to help these people, but since high levels shouldn't be in low-level areas anyway, it might not be within the pocketbooks of new characters to be ressing the people they find in newbie areas.

Anyway, merely wondering about these things. By no means a disparaging comment towards the new system, since it definitely is beneficial in many ways.

[GodBeastX]

A couple questions. First, if someone picks up a corpse, could they potentially move it, drop it, and then it stays there? I could foresee some griefing with this, without the knowledge of the actual dead person, until the next time they check where their corpse is.

Such as, Paladin A kills Banite B. Paladin A is happy, Banite B is a little sad, but doesn't bear a grudge. But Banite B has din-din, so he logs off. Paladin A is a bit of an asshat, and mischievous. So, Paladin A gets the idea of taking the body and hiding it away in some remote corner of the world. Say, up in the mountains pass, in one of the random caves.

If this is possible, perhaps there could be some rule against that? While somewhat realistic that this could be done, it could effectively create some bad blood.

PVP death allows respawn without penalty other than a small amount of gold loss. If they kill you and hide your body, just respawn. Corpse status check now tells where your body is.

Secondly, will bodies never disappear, then? If not, is it possible there could be an over saturation of bodies in certain areas, then? Since sometimes a server will get a huge influx of new players that will rush newbie areas, die, and log never to be seen again (or to just create another character). Hopefully there will be enough kind souls to help these people, but since high levels shouldn't be in low-level areas anyway, it might not be within the pocketbooks of new characters to be ressing the people they find in newbie areas.

Currently there are only 228 dead people. If it becomes a problem, we record when people have died and can do cleanup of people who died ages and ages ago. We have that power

[DM_Equinox]

"only" 228

Can't have that, we must do something about this....

[Maevan2]

"only" 228

Can't have that, we must do something about this....

I can already imagine how certain places are blocked by all those corpses

[ReverberateEcho]

Ah, sounds good! Hopefully no one comes across an enemy that died from non-PvP measures and does what I just mentioned. But that would probably be a rare event. Possible, but not entirely likely.

[Urithrand]

Reverberate, you should also bear in mind that what you described would likely be a totally IC action, and as such is encouraged!

Incidentally - what about perma-dead characters that we don't want to delete for sentimental value? Could we implement an IG UI to toggle yourself perma-dead to make your corpse vanish?

[ReverberateEcho]

Really? Now, don't get me wrong, my intention isn't to start some kind of flame war, but I'd like to take a moment and look at the scenario.

So, two characters are enemies (disregarding any sort of OOC grudge, of course). So, Fighter A is out leveling one day, and Rogue B spots him in the forest. Rogue B's clever, so decides to sit around and hope to see Fighter A die.

Rogue B's patience pays off, and he sees Fighter A die. So, Rogue Be scoops up the body and finds some ridiculously remote place of the world and drops the body then. Now, from what I've been told, there are some places that are almost never visited on the server (haha, the idea that these places will become like landfills for hidden dead bodies is sort of humorous); so they're essentially perma'ing this character, if I understand the rules correctly.

Because the man that's dead is not allowed to inform any friends of the death, nor his position in the world, through any means. Do they have a recourse in this case? Do they talk to a DM? Or do they truly just leave their corpse to rot where ever it might have been dumped by said adversary?

It's not that I'm against being clever with your enemies. But it seems, in this situation, it's at least close to disposing another character for good. And, correct me if I'm wrong, this is what the team was trying to get away from with a lot of the new PvP rules.

That they don't want to discourage people from being afraid from conflict with others, and the like.

This is more how I'm perceiving the scenario. If this is how you want it to be, by all means, alright. Also, if I'm misunderstanding the scenario in question, I'd truly appreciate clarification. Whatever the case, thanks for the dialogue, Uri.

[BedlamX]

Reverberate, you should also bear in mind that what you described would likely be a totally IC action, and as such is encouraged!

Lol...why do I see a rash of body movings to force a respawn in the future?

Not that it will matter to me. No one my toons hang with has enough gold to pay for a rez anyway, so I always just take the hit and respawn.


You beat me to the response, Rev. I didn't even think of higher level toons getting stuck with no hope of having their body found and no rez signets. Gotta say...that would suck big time.

[Machiavelli]

Nice work GBX. A very welcome change.

[Thief Of Navarre]

Yeah looks good! I hate having to wait around just so someone 'lucky'ily finds your corpse and THEN decides to raise you lol.

Makes being a priest or shaman more worthwhile as well!

[ReverberateEcho]

Sorry for another post, but I went looking at an older post, describing the changes to the Death System. Here it is.

http://www.sundren.org/forum/showthr...ght=raise+dead

- PvP will no longer incur an XP penalty, meaning if you die by another player, then you will not lose XP from resurrecting, you will still have to use a signus if resurrection is not an option

It sounds to me as if there will still be no option of respawning at level 11 and afterwards, even in the case of PvP. If that was not the intended meaning by this, then my apologies for misinterpreting such.

But, if this is the case, then the danger inherent for all level 11+ characters without a Signus in PvP can become somewhat apparent. Soon as they're dead, their adversary can scoop up the body and abscond with it someplace remote, as previously mentioned.

Once again, I just want to be clear my intention is not to speak ill of the new system. I think it's great, and will help solve a lot of things! Simply, if how I've perceived the information is accurate, people could abuse (or, at least it seems like abusing to me [perhaps it won't be considered that by the staff, that's their final judgment, of course]) the system, and you'll probably end up with a lot of complaints from the people being "perma'd" by clever enemies.

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to read this!

[Thief Of Navarre]

I doubt anyone on sundren would do that maliciously! (unless of course they are trying to qualify for the assassin PrC or something).

I really dont think anyone would go to the effort.

[Urithrand]

Reverberate, it really depends on the circumstances. If the hiding of someone's body is an OOC action, "abusing" the system, then this is a punishable offense, and the effectively permed character would be allowed a way out by a DM to right the wrong. If it's an in-character action, it's really not abuse, it makes perfect sense, and it adds a whole new flavour to PvP.

Isn't it sensible to hide the body after you kill someone, after all? The chance that the body will be found is still high when you consider that the corpse will remain there indefinately until the player is ressed by someone. Certain areas might get little traffic, but there's a difference between that and none at all. Someone will find everyone eventually, it will just take time. That's effectively the whole purpose behind making the corpse persistant.

[Cirion]

I doubt anyone on sundren would do that maliciously! (unless of course they are trying to qualify for the assassin PrC or something).

I really dont think anyone would go to the effort.

Whoo, My one post for the month... 2 months -- Three!

Anyhow. I have to disagree with you, Thief. I have seen players that will go through a LOT to remove a character.

They'll plan something big (like spend 3 nights planning or speak to their friends about), then move the body and try to drop it in some untraveled place in an attempt to permakill a character. And, usually, this is done because there is a great deal more OOC motivation than IC; people try to grab at the smallest threads for trying to perform "IC actions" at times.


If only people would realize that more fun RP can be had via other means, and not just PvP where -unless both sides get away alive- death leaves a blank spot with nearly no chance of retaliation from the other side.

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I like the main idea behind this new system, or what GBX said the reasons were. Otherwise, sorry to say, this DOES give players plenty of room to abuse.