Crafting Thoughts

[Kaeldorn]

You can dye cloaks during enchantment...

You do not enchant cloaks by putting properties on the existing item, mechanically. You craft wondrous items out of them.

It's a craft, i.e. new product created according to the 'blueprint' for the magical cloak. Enchanting does not allow appearance crafting, but wondrous item crafting does. The main reason why you can tint/model silk cloaks is that it can also be used just as a fashion item, and it would be dreadfully expensive if you needed to make magical cloaks for that all the time.


It's true that dye prices on appraise might be off. I didn't tune them after I altered the initial intended use to what it is now.

[Fezzik]

So the dummy dye selection in say... Prot. +2 cloak is moot? It'll just spit out a plain cloak of typical +2 variety? Just wanna make sure... I know you're working on stuff for the next update, but if there isn't any point in waiting to colour it, then I'll make it for the person now.

[grant]

So the dummy dye selection in say... Prot. +2 cloak is moot? It'll just spit out a plain cloak of typical +2 variety? Just wanna make sure... I know you're working on stuff for the next update, but if there isn't any point in waiting to colour it, then I'll make it for the person now.

That's what happened to me, we made a wondrous item out of my custom made (not dyed cause priests and monks of Azuth prefer grays) cloak. What I got was a cookie cutter starred cloak with putrid green trim and a greenish gray tinge to the field.

But it sounds like... if I make a set of gray monks PJ's and enchanted them with various armor spells they will NOT turn that dumb yellow color, or if I had enchanted the cloak with something else (don't know what though) it would not have changed appearance.

If enchanters get to dye items whats the point of having tailors?

[grant]

Actually I have a question, is there any way to add skills to an item, or are there plans to create a method?

I can see a new use for having a high level in a skill; to be the required assistant to an enchanter trying to add that skill bonus to an item.

[Kaeldorn]

No, enchanters do not get to add skill bonuses to items. Adding skill bonuses is possible for socketed items through application of imbued gems, made with Imbue Material.

No, there are no ways to enchant cloaks at all. Enchanting is possible on weapons, armour, shields and gloves only. And which enchantments you can place on what armour and weapon types varies (see the recipe descriptions).

No, enchanting an item does not allow you to change its appearance.

No, the appearance of a component item does not transfer over to the newly crafted item. Because that's what is; a component that gets consumed in the process, nothing more. Without a disproportionate extra amount of work that doesn't actually add much to the system, it's mechanically not possible for it to be treated otherwise .

The purpose of required goods produced by other crafts still stands solid, because that itself is the purpose. Each craft needs materials that come from another crafting/gathering skill/feat, which encourages interaction from anyone who doesn't happen to attempt to juggle with all of them.

So the dummy dye selection in say... Prot. +2 cloak is moot? It'll just spit out a plain cloak of typical +2 variety? Just wanna make sure... I know you're working on stuff for the next update, but if there isn't any point in waiting to colour it, then I'll make it for the person now.

No, it's not. Sorry if that became unclear. A wondrous item-crafted cloak gives a default appearance by default only. As in, the Cloak of Protection +2 doesn't take into account what the cloak you used as a material used to look like, it only uses its default appearance, plus any modifications you applied during wondrous item crafting.

Only problem is that you can't see what you are doing when clicking the changes on the appearance crafting screen right now. I've heard that it is in fact possible to blindly apply the changes on composite longbows successfully, though I can't recommend it as I can guarantee nothing. This issue is/was caused by the item you created not being identified by the time the dummy is supposed to equip it. Which has been dealt with, but it's not live yet.

[Cornuto]

So if I understand correctly, basically you aren't enchanting the wool cloak. It's just a one of several ingredients used in the crafting of the wondrous item, a Cloak of Fortification +2, and is consumed in the process. You can still customize the appearance of the Cloak of Fortification +2 when it is created, however.

[Kaeldorn]

Exactly

From a logical IC point of view, applying magical effects to any material or item is always a form of enchanting. But as far as Sundren's craft mechanics are concerned, only Craft Magic Arms and Armour is considered enchanting. Everything else makes new items.

It has always been like that in the crafting systems shipped with the original NWN games and Sundren's system was built up from there (from the SoZ system to be specific).

[grant]

No, it's not. Sorry if that became unclear. A wondrous item-crafted cloak gives a default appearance by default only. As in, the Cloak of Protection +2 doesn't take into account what the cloak you used as a material used to look like, it only uses its default appearance, plus any modifications you applied during wondrous item crafting.

So it is possible for the enchanter to change the appearance of a wondrous item like a cloak specifically they just have to do it blind?

So if I gave them the model, tint, color, ?brightness? and saturation numbers, they could re-produce the item as I saw the tailor model it for me?

If not what other modifications are you talking about?

Only problem is that you can't see what you are doing when clicking the changes on the appearance crafting screen right now. I've heard that it is in fact possible to blindly apply the changes on composite longbows successfully, though I can't recommend it as I can guarantee nothing. This issue is/was caused by the item you created not being identified by the time the dummy is supposed to equip it. Which has been dealt with, but it's not live yet.

I was about to try that with my bow, when I was called to go kick butt. As I said above I wrote down all the numbers pertaining to the bow and even if it fails I'll still have -a- if not -the- bow. (I'll edit and verify if it works.)

Edit

It does NOT work; I got a standard Composite Bow, and it did not even use the dyes trying to color it. So it does not look good for Wondrous Items either.

On a side note - For Sale: 1 Composite bow +3 mighty, price - One Zalantar plank. Cheap even by the church ladies standards.

End Edit

[Kaeldorn]

So it is possible for the enchanter to change the appearance of a wondrous item like a cloak specifically they just have to do it blind?

So if I gave them the model, tint, color, ?brightness? and saturation numbers, they could re-produce the item as I saw the tailor model it for me?

That might work, but I can't say that it will with any amount of certainty.

[Jeckman814]

Hey, I was the one who tried to blindly craft the composite bow, and everything worked out for me. Currently I'm trying to make another bow and will be using dyes and such for it, I'll tell you how it goes if I can. As to the orginal point of this thread, another few things have to be mentioned. Crafters can fail while making an item, especially if their new. If I craft an item that costs 400 gold to make from the plan and I were to charge 1800 or whatever to make the price comepetitive then it is possible for me to fail rolls in such a way that I would be making much less or not profit. So I have to charge considering the risks I am taking to fail while making that item. This is when competition should come in and offer to make an item with higher skill and less chance to fail, therefore a lower price. The problem here is that there currently isn't any competition, so i'm sorry but you'll just have to stick with my price I guess. Also a problem I see that may be why many crafters don't bother at low levels is the abundance of overpowered items dropped by the cheftain's and such. I haven't played nearly as much as most of you I'm sure, but in my little experience I've seen these Gnoll, Goblin and Ogre cheftain's; o yea, and the baneguard, drop items that are worth atleast 4000 stags, these items would not be crafted by any low level player. I would assume this to be very discouraging to low level players to see a juju knife, rot blade, or savage platebody drop. I have yet to see that many woodcraft related drops so it hasn't affected me much.

[Jeckman814]

Sorry about the solid block of post there....

[Subal]

I feel your a little off Jeck , when it comes too higher skill lower cost, as i have sank 3 feats then every level adding skill points and on top of this spending quite an extreme amount of money on items that boost my skill. I put a extreme amount of time and money into my crafting skill, and if i am willing too go that extra distance, belive me you will be paying for that expertise.

You do not go too a local jewler and ask him too craft you the worlds finest gemstone, you go too the worlds finest gemstone cutters and designers.
You will pay premium for this service, and that is because they dont fail. You get EXactly what you want, they did not spend all their lives dedicating themselves too a craft too be paid in soup and crackers.

[Thief Of Navarre]

The way things are at the moment most of my character can afford to buy the best kit from vendors but if any of them wanted to buy even the most meagre piece of equipment from a crafter they would have to raid the piggy bank.

The price of having a unique item to your name? maybe.

[gbbishop]

it is simple your sundren vendors, too me are like kmart. your pc crafters are custom artisans.

it is ridiculously difficult to get all the necessary things together with a crafter with the skill to actually craft it. plain and simple, you should need to break the pig. least until recipes and components become more common place...

but i don't see that happening. it is my understanding that the sundevs want to keep sundren low magic. and in terms of maintaining balance this is a damn good call IMHO.

[amirlach]

I would like to ask what the state of crafting is now and what players and DMs are wanting to achieve with a player economy.

I ran a very successfull crafting company on a NWN 1 server and have some insights on how to structure and run a crafting faction from a players view. I would be interested in the DMs take on things.

The player economy can be a great source of conflict and intrigue as competing factions try to dominate the market.

We had the companys founder and key members all killed off in one PVP battle. The evil faction that did this wanted to weaken the city before an invasion by Shadovar.

The effect of this was even greater than they had hoped for as character levels and wealth droped significantly for many months as the faction slowly recovered.

The damage done to the player economy had actually made a great impact on all players and factions, both good and evil. Most of the magic items on the server were PC crafted or rewards for DM quests.

So losing such a strong player run crafting faction had a cascade effect that reduced the quality and quantity of eqipment avaliable to characters for a period of months. The time it took for the faction to rebuild.

Creating a strong player economy will affect character LVLs and wealth and things may need tweaking to maintain the ballance that the DMs want for this server.

The key factor in the factions success was teamwork. Very few individuals could be successful crafters.

I would be willing to discuss this topic with either DMs or players who are interested.


amirlach