Crafting Thoughts

[RPMike17]

Here are a few thoughts I have about crafters, enchanters, and material suppliers... I think there are some out there that need some help, and others that may have some thoughts they can add. The crafting system gets debated a lot, but what it comes down to is:

How can both Vendor and Customer benefit???

Customers (easy part):
Shop around!

Post on the Forum what you need (which some do...) tell people to send you a PM and pick your vendor.

When in game, don't be afraid to ask "Hey anyone a crafter? A miner?" etc...

Vendors (way more complex):
If vendors can't beat the competition they won't sell anything, then get upset and stop selling.

Vendors need to make a profit. Or again, they'll get upset and stop selling.

Here's my example of what I think is a fair price:

100 for plans/draft/etc...
140 for fatigue (20 stags / fatigue point)
300 to create an item (per the plans)
460 for the materials
1000 total cost

33% margin is 1500 - fair to me
33-67 % where everyone should be?
67% margin is 3000 - expensive to me

To simplify: take 50% of what it cost to make and add it to the price. Exigo are the ones I would expect to charge the 3000...

Suppliers example:

100 stags to mine / cut / prepare (20 / fatigue pt rate)
- so -
150 would be a fair price for ALL the materials

I am looking at like 500 / week item, but a crafter recently stated they wanted to make 400-500 / day on avg.

Example:
Their way: Item cost of 1000 with 7 fatigue to crafter. Item sold at 3800 making 2800 profit. Since 7 fatigue takes 1 week to recover, crafter gets 400 / day effectively.

My way: Item cost 1000 with 7 fatigue. Item sold at 1500, making 500 profit, 1 week recovery.

I would be the bargain outlet I guess! I would love to have others post their opinions. *ducks from rocks and rotten vegetables being thrown*

Side note: Some are supposed to charge huge fees because they do not get along (i.e. opposing factions) or, if the vendor is evil and a customer looks dumb or desperate...the price goes up!

Hopefully this will help the developers see what changes may (or may not!) need to be made, based on what people post. BE NICE! Maybe fatigue is too high for some items, not a recovery problem. Maybe I'm an idiot and should have kept my trap shut...

*gets off his soap box*

[Subal]

The issue i have is sorry but if i am going too craft a full suit of adamantine which costs near 30 fatigue...you are not getting it for anywhere near 20 stags per fatigue or even a bit higher. Seeing as the one suit just took me out of buisiness for a entire month. Sure the 7 fatigue stuff i only charge very little for, but still it is all dependent on how much fatigue till the crafter is out of buisiness. If im going too bust my fatigue after your weapon best belive i want a little more cash since im done after that for some time.

Many crafters work on the fatigue system, yes it sucks. but it works because of how hard it hits us when crafting the bigger stuff.

Even simple silver weapons have a cost of 17 fatigue , these weapons are requested constantly. Im sorry but how do you expect the crafter too make any profit if you expect 20 points per fatigue ?

[Ebannon]

I would be the bargain outlet I guess!

More like the soup kitchen.

My prices are much higher than that and I'm fighting to keep up with customer demands. (My fatigue hovers around 50 constantly).

[Subal]

damn right he does and we pay every little penny as we know its worth it .

[Kaeldorn]

The biggest problem with prices seems to be the lack of crafters and gatherers, and the abundance of gold.

Also, higher DC crafting/gathering is supposed to be worth amounts of gold that increase exponentially, as anyone with a slight bit of skill could produce the simple things but it takes much more investment to become good enough to produce the better goods.

Finally, note that the decrease in fatigue cost by strength/dexterity/constitution in gathering and crafting is relatively more significant for the 'cheaper' fatigue items/nodes. One may mine iron ore for as little as 1 fatigue point per attempt, while adamantine still costs 4 times as much and may still have a failure chance or be completely impossible to mine at all for someone with lower skill.

[Fezzik]

One may mine iron ore for as little as 1 fatigue point per attempt, while adamantine still costs 4 times as much and may still have a failure chance or be completely impossible to mine at all for someone with lower skill.

There might be something a little wonky then. I've mined things that have 6+1 (can't remember what exactly) but my str and con modifiers are 3+5, and I still get dinged for 2 fatigue.

Otherwise, there is a definite lack of materials and crafters... but then, not everyone wants to invest time in doing it (crafting or professing).

To many capitalists, not enough communists

[Subal]

There is alot of gold running around on the server, with most not having anything too burn it on anyways. Is there something that could be added that would maby use up some of this coin, We have the gambling bit in the entertainment side, maby we could put another little guy in there that is for "Highrollers" sitting in the back corner somewere, instead of betting 20 gold, its a 500 gold buy in for those with the guts and cash too burn. Higher odds too lose , but payoff could maby come up with a system of winning a item or what not choose from various objects, gems for example.
This would give higher levels a few gems everyonce and while they are seeking AND Get rid of a huge abundance of cash on the server.
Not sure if any of this possible just throwing idea's

[Kaeldorn]

Ahh right, I put in the +1 for gathering to prevent people with builds like that from getting Mithral and such for less than 2 points of fatigue. I really should introduce a variable non-reduceable penalty depending on the kind of node you're mining from. At least iron should be possible to mine for 1 per go.

[Gamling]

Well I'm not sure how many new characters have been made, but it's probably uderstood that not too many people are miners/fishers/lumberjacks because they're not high enough level, yet. The crafting system is pretty new.

[grant]

$150 for materials, sure, try and make a profit on arrows at $150 each for both 5 planks of wood and 1 bar of iron. <- assuming your not a wood cutter+crafter and miner+weapon smith.

I do not charge for fatigue, though honestly, there is not enough demand on my PC's skills and in comparison to other crafts its quite low. I am quite happy making 50 stages for a 150 stag item (after all others items have been added) I am also happy to charge prices that put it (a lot) under or just (a little) over the appraised value. I have never deliberately gone more than 100 over the appraised value, but have let the client pay me more.

I consider it gouging to charge more than Exigo does.

The only reason I offered $1000 stags for a plank of Zalantar is that it I thought it was the only way I'd get the last piece I am going to buy. My wood crafter is (finally) making their own bow after making several for other people. Then I'll be ditching the exotics crafting and maybe crafting altogether.

BTW, I got my plank for a price on the other side of the appraised value than my offer.

My Icewind Fir timber is a hunting trophy and suitable for sacrifice to Solonor. i.e. dropping in a trash barrel. I might as well sacrifice it I can not find any one who can even cut it, wants to, or has use for items made from it.

In fact the situation is so ridiculous that I have been tempted to charge the Veritas hill naked until I loose the last 5 levels and put those points in to something of more value to my PC when I re-level.

As for miners I have had a stock of wood for a while now, and posted my willingness to provide Braces (what ever they are called) In my entire crafting career I have sold 1 ceiling brace and none since advertising. So either the miners are stopping at that point and deliberately shorting themselves (and the market), or they find the braces not worth the appraised price for the ore returned.

There is also a 3 other problems I have noticed:

"raw" wolf and wolverine pelts have only one use, leather. Despite that fact that making leather is free ($ and fatigue), the end result is a product that is worth LESS than the original pelt.

Dyes... red for sure appraises for less than the cost to create it. If the appraised value is what the intended price is supposed to be then the bench and raw materials fee's are over priced.

Custom made cloaks are useless for enchanting. If its enchanted you get something that looks totally different.

[RPMike17]

The issue i have is sorry but if i am going too craft a full suit of adamantine which costs near 30 fatigue...you are not getting it for anywhere near 20 stags per fatigue or even a bit higher.

So say :
200 for plans
900 for fatigue (30 stags / fatigue point for adamantine )
1000 to create an item (per the plans)
500 for the materials
2600 total cost

3900 selling price = 1300 profit = 325 /wk

Which is lower than what I would want too. But where does the adjustment need to be made? Charge more / fatigue? Or does the crafting system need to tweaked to allow less fatigue?

I would say charge more, since only the wealthy should be able to afford adamantine.

But, I am glad to get some kind of guide out there. If the crafters take the cost into play, and what they expect to make per, per day, per month, it should help the system mature and prosper.

[Subal]

So you have a true example a adamantine suit of full plate is

9600 staggs : just too start the plans
29 fatigue :
10 adamantine bars

by your standards the base price for one of the best suits in game should only be near 16,000.

16,000 is not much cash at all if you really think about it, A good high level run through mossdale yeilds you nearly 10k (All of mossdale)

At only 16,000 staggs there is waaay too many players that could afford, and it would make the armor worthless because it would not be hard too get.

[joker]

The only people with all the gold are the Powerbuilds that can solo the Mossdale (figher/mages, fighter/priests or basically any spellcaster of 18th level). A stealth build can't even come close to soloing anywhere except places that give no experience. I personally do not think there is to much gold floating around. I would love to see other ways to find some crafting items or just earn some gold. I know that I and others have spent our own gold and resources performing tasks for factions. Perhaps some kind of reward from your faction for doing a task/job.

[Fezzik]

Custom made cloaks are useless for enchanting. If its enchanted you get something that looks totally different.

You can dye cloaks during enchantment...

[gbbishop]

hmm iteresting stuff...

i have only a few things to add...

as a jeweler this is how stuff gets figured

labor: currently i charge 75/hr often the consltation is free of charge unless it requires very detailed renderings and the like in which case those hours are charged as well.
materials: are triple key. that means that my whole sale is multiplied by 3.
some things like diamonds cannot be factored this way as they are already exobitantly prices so a 20% 30% increase ove whole sale is often appropriate.

it is always time and material.. with the time realtive to skill of the artisan and materials subject to both quality and availablity.
and then of course tere is supply and demand. that always come into play.. if shit doesnt sell you have to reduce your price or sit on it.

obviouly one cannot use these rate for something like full plate cuz even at 100 hours which i think would be very hard to make a suit of full plate in only 100 hour.
one would be cahrging 7500 for time alone.

as for price gouging.. charging more than the exigo.. you are damn right im gonna charge more than exigo.. it would be like someone coming to me and saying make me a ring at k mart prices.. i would tell them where to "install thier new kmart ring"

in short i think that the point is that common items have a market place value.. and that if the prices dont beat the exigo they will not sell those items... how ever if you want something unique like a silver longsword.. or adamant breastplate.. you better expect to pay a premium for it.. crafters are short in supply and they have a HUGE limitation on them with fatigue.. if they get above 50 they get to walk around with some very nice negatives too.

crafting is VERY difficult to do.. it is sooo dificult that many have dicided not to be crafters. even if you want to be a crafter, not everyone can make adamantine fullplate.. i think there are MAYBE two plans for adamant fp in all of sundren. therefore gathering all the plans the materials and investing the skill points must be taken into acount.

so hear this! all who are in the market for custom items! PAY YOUR VENDERS WELL! or you wont find them on the server anylonger.

and i appoligize for how incohearent all of the above must be... it is too late for me to be writing anything.