Not Half Bad

[wangxiuming]

I could elaborate further, but I think it would only serve to derail the thread while convincing neither of us that the other is correct. So! Agree to disagree.

[Doubtful]

Try not to mistake your own personal opinion for global consensus, you risk sounding like like a sensationalist tabloid paper.

A quick glance across the internet (the things you can never unsee) will show that there are people out there who'll find anything hot. As a wise man put it; their ain't no such thing as normal sexuality.

Charisma - At the risk of turning this into another tedious discussion about What is Charisma? I do want to point out that while it does affect beauty, physical appearance is by no means the be-all and end-all of the stat.

Charisma measures a character’s force of personality, persuasiveness, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and physical attractiveness.

It's first and foremost a mental stat - How that character can imprint themselves on the world around them. A high CHA character will stand out, be interesting, probably be addored and tend to be the go-to guy when things get a bit sticky. Low CHA folk will be a sort of beige nothingness in peoples minds, suffer from limpwristed handshakes and struggle to get themselves noticed or be remembered as being a total buzzkill.

A High CHA low INT person should be able to sway a crowd into doing some truly stupid things, probably while the low CHA High INT person rails and screams against their ideas while wondering why on earth no-one is listening to them or being told to shut the fuck up Donny.

In short half-orcs should in almost all situations be pretty damn ugly by human standards, but I don't see the other parts of Charisma being particularly affected by their parentage, especially given the cult of leadership that's classically displayed by orcs.

As for orcish lineage, the name Half-Orc may be slightly misleading, much like teiflings, aasimar and the other racial traits the orc blood doesn't need to be first generation - The traits can be passed down through generations or even hide away dormantly till some poor mother has a surprisingly ugly baby (does it still look like Winston Churchill?). It's not all about the rape.

Fully agree that they should suffer from some pretty serious abuse though, seriously. They're part orc and we all know what those things are like. I mean my aunts sisters brother once had a friend who knew a chap who out of the decency of his heart decided to give what he thought was an intelligent half-orc some work on his farm. Well it was all well and good what with it being strong and all, but you know how close to animals those things are. Turned out it took a fancy to his eldest daughter Bethany, poor dear, never found out what happened to her, nor the blacksmiths lad what went missing at the same time, no doubt got himself killed trying to save poor Beth from that creatures monstrous lusts. That half-orc near killed three good men when they lynched it, they say peters nephews friend Jake never did walk right again after that, no no. Never trust one of them monsters again I wouldn't. No smoke without fire and all that.

[Laurk]

Yep. I should probably qualify a bit though... everything that is weird has some one who finds it hot. I just doubt Tusks are the "average" symbol of beauty in greater society as a whole. Hell I have a friend who is into human tails. Not even kidding you. Im sure there are a few oddballs out there who just cant get off unless there are tusks involved in Faerun. Also, much like obese porn outsells regular porn by almost double because its "nitch" and there is far less of it to be sold, I bet "Tusks in Heat" outsells "Play-Elf" by half again as well at the Aurora's Catalog stand. Thats probably where that minus 2 starting cha comes from.

On that note, I think it someone simply must RP some wierdo who has a fetish for large half-orc women now. Infact in my PnP games, every PC rolls a negative trait at creation, and im pretty sure sexual attraction to half orcs is on there.

While physical apperance is not a predominate part of Charisma, it is a part of it, so the -2 probably originates from that as half orcs are otherwise normal in the personality department. I tend to think the overall might be a bit lower when you factor in social stigma.

Given the sheer number of these things running around, I think it would be a lot less: "aunts sisters brother once had a friend who knew a chap" and a lot more: "My Aunt" or "My sister."

[cmosier]

She is not hot. She has fangs.

Tusks. And she is indeed hot. In a primitive "I'll stab your eye hole" kind of way.

[Doubtful]

The Aunts sisters brother thing was due to recently watching Hot Fuzz (again).

The worst part of all this is that the fact checking has left me with a terrible desire to play a Half-Orc specialist Paladin (Redeemer).

[Laurk]

*Checks under Hellstrom's matress for his stack of "Tusks in Heat."

[thaelis]

Are we really having a discussion about whether tusks and piggy noses are attractive?

If you're really that interested in it there is a great deal of research (aka wasted taxpayer dollars) on what Humans on average find attractive and what they don't.

[Laurk]

I thought thats why they invented the Internet?

[cmosier]

I thought thats why they invented the Internet?

I use the internet for recipes that I alter to perfection. This is why I make the best damn chocolate chip cookies. Period.

[sonuvalich]

The only reason for the internet

Also, I would love to try Hellstrom Bakeries, sounds posh.

My question to everyone in this discussion is why does this stuff have to be hard coded? Why can't we trust one another to interpret situations without solely relying on dice rolls?

Example: a super ugly half-orc makes an intimdation check, emotes that he tries to bend a steel rod or something (w/ a Str Check? I'm not even keen on that really, dude has a 26 Str he should be able to do it on cue) and also mentions that his face is the stuff of nightmares due to his 3 Cha. He rolls to intimidate me and fails, say with a 20 vs. a 29. I, as a player, consider the situation and give him some bonuses in my mind, as I visualize the situation unfolding. I decide that while he did not win the check, it was reasonably close, so instead of being broken, shaken, or otherwise terrified, I become nervous and perhaps a bit less mouthy.

This relies on my interpreting his low Cha as a boon in this situation, because he is emphasizing how hideous he is. If he tries to intimidate me just with words, I now consider his low Cha as a burden because, in this situation, I interpret it as his lack of presence. Someone can come up to me, ugly as sin, as say "I am going to hurt you and take all your money" but if he says it with a squeaky voice and sounds like he is about to break down in tears, I may not find it very alarming. Or an average person could whisper "I am going to murder you" in my ear and know just how to emphasize those words to really make me believe. So if a player gives me good reason to use his low cha as a positive modifier to intimidate instead of a negative, I can roll with it.

My issue is I see some of this debate as people giving too much power to dice rolls. A similar situation would be dwarves flirting with my cleric. If a dwarf rolls a 30-something diplomacy check to convince me I should take him to bed, should I immediately do so, just because he rolled well? Or should I take the roll as a measure of his persuasive capabilities and maybe let him buy me a drink? I certainly am not saying wholly disregard the dice rolls, because they do matter, but asking for changes to the game mechanics instead of trusting each other to be able to interpret situations honestly (or debate quickly in OOC tells if needed) does not seem to be the right solution in my mind. Maybe just a consensus on how and when we should interpret the pluses/minuses and some suggested guidelines?

[Phantom Lamb]

I love that the races have become Pathfindered. But I still believe there's a gap between the strength of most races and half-orcs, and to a lesser degree, half-elves.

More races can now get a STR bonus. And just comparing Human to Half-orc:
- Extra Feat, Extra Skill Points
- Dark vision

Are extra additions still in consideration for this race? Some cool ideas might be, 1) make them count as one size larger, or 2) bonuses to intimidate, or 3) Extend Rage for free, etc.

[Lotus]

I think I'll go in and make this feat automatic for Half-orcs, instead of them having to burn a feat to take it:

Bestial Rage
You have a berserker soul, the result of feral ancestry or perhaps the bitterness and fury that comes from being hated by both halves of your heritage.
Prerequisites: Half Orc
Benefit: In time of great stress, you can give into the rage burning withing, gaining great strength from such a release. You may use the barbarian's Rage class ability once per dau, with all of its consumerate advantages and drawbacks. This use of Bestial Rage stacks with any other uses granted to you by class levels or other uses granted to you by class levels or other sources. For all intents and purposes this feat counts as access to the barbarian's Rage class feature with the exception of fulfilling prerequsities for choosing feats or PRCs.

[Jai_V]

That actually makes sense. It's not that considerable of a buff, and it gives them that little something extra.

[Phantom Lamb]

Hello, any word on this? Half orcs could use a little balancing touch. The one thing they had that made them special (STR) is now moot.

[Gamling]

Bestial Rage
You have a berserker soul, the result of feral ancestry or perhaps the bitterness and fury that comes from being hated by both halves of your heritage.
Prerequisites: Half Orc
Benefit: In time of great stress, you can give into the rage burning withing, gaining great strength from such a release. You may use the barbarian's Rage class ability once per dau, with all of its consumerate advantages and drawbacks. This use of Bestial Rage stacks with any other uses granted to you by class levels or other uses granted to you by class levels or other sources. For all intents and purposes this feat counts as access to the barbarian's Rage class feature with the exception of fulfilling prerequsities for choosing feats or PRCs.
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Giving an already bad race a bad ability doesn't really balance things out. Wood elves make better barbs than half-orcs at this point.


My personal suggestion is to either give Half-orcs a +2 and a -2 to their stats on top of the +2 to any stat, or the size category larger deal. That's the only way they'll be on par with humans that I can think of. I'm sure there are other good ideas not yet spoken.

I don't think this idea is OP considering humans get +2 to a stat on top of an extra feat. An extra feat being incredibly powerful.