Not Half Bad

[bipolar bear]

my thought would be +2 str +1 to dex +1 to con -2 to cha, -2 to int. this would even it out. the play the half orc up to being more of a natural athelete. why not. they keep the str bonus without stealing the dwarf toughness. and get a little loving from the physical stats sence all their mental stats are horrid.

and once more give them warrior classes as their favored. these bastards can live in towns / gutter / wild / tribe. they should be able to half adaptable.


.........OR how about a "-ECL" XP bonus ? in light of their lost stats.

[Thief Of Navarre]

The -ECL isnt a bad idea if its feasable within the game engine!

[thaelis]

I never play half-orcs but even I'd have to agree that a +2 Str -2 Int OR Cha would not make them overpowered. It'd be nice to keep it as intelligence, as I like the idea of them being dumb and also it creates less potential for powerbuilds as Int is useful to any class whereas Cha is only vital to 4 classes that I can think of (Sorc, Paly, Shaman, Favoured soul)

If they got +2 Str/Con and -2 Int/Cha that would be fine by me too, though slightly weird since even pure Orcs don't have a bonus to Con :S

[Valhalla]

....also it creates less potential for powerbuilds as Int is useful to any class whereas Cha is only vital to 4 classes that I can think of (Sorc, Paly, Shaman, Favoured soul)

Also Blackguard, Bards, Warlocks, and anyone focusing on Turning feats (Divine might/Shield, and also being effective at actually using Turn Undead).

I think if you're looking for what would be a bigger 'hit', then -2 Cha is it imo. People like being pretty, and NWN2 gives you a plethora of options to be pretty while being effective.

[Doubtful]

But people just dump stat CHA anyway, describe themselves as Hollywood Ugly (IE, obviously stunning but wearing thick glasses and needing a haircut) at best or above averagely attractive but slightly boring at cocktail parties, then complain like whiny little bastards when the DM team point out that you need to actually play the stats you've chosen.

So, No. Let's not use CHA.

[Valhalla]

Half-orc wizards would look silly as hell so I support this plan.

[thaelis]

Also Blackguard, Bards, Warlocks, and anyone focusing on Turning feats (Divine might/Shield, and also being effective at actually using Turn Undead).

I think if you're looking for what would be a bigger 'hit', then -2 Cha is it imo. People like being pretty, and NWN2 gives you a plethora of options to be pretty while being effective.

True that! But somehow I can imagine Orcs being good Shamans and Warlocks. Wizards though? If I was attacked by a half-orc in robes with one of those wizard hats I would lose instantly due to uncontrollable laughter.

[Thief Of Navarre]

^ That! And what doubt said about people roleplaying low charisma. Probably better off being INT

[sonuvalich]

So what I'm hearing is that if I walk around using disguise self or polymorphs to look like an orc or half-orc, I will win every PvP because my opponents will be too busy laughing or staring in stunned silence to put up a fight. Interesting...steepled fingers

[Thief Of Navarre]

Its a good gambit if you can put up with looking like an orc

[sonuvalich]

If I can tolerate paladins, I can tolerate looking like an orc! Zing!

[Thief Of Navarre]

One day your outlook on life will change and you will realise we are all designed to be paladins IRL

[Laurk]

I suppose I would weigh in that for the warrior group, STR outweighs other attributes completely. I think that's why in the 3.0+ handbooks the orcs suffer a net loss unlke other races, because they are the only ones to get a Str boost. Lets face it too, orcs are not particularly the most versitile of races. They excell at violence and rape, and thats about it (note: I have placed a curse on R.A. Salvatore for ruining yet another monster race by "humanizing" it and actually giving them nuclear family units and introducing racism against orcs as a bad thing. May you share the same shame as the SOBs that emoized and twilightized vampires, turning them from a horrible monster into a "race." How could you? end rant.) I think wood elves were introduced later but they also had more negative stats to counter-balance the strength bonus. Strengh is hugely important. Encumberance, ab & damage. the cornerstone of melee combat and loot collection.

Though you could argue Dex is up there depending on the sort of PC you want to make, esspecially as PrCs and added feats pretty much give you the ability to use any ability score to enhance AB and damage. Ive even seen Charisma put forward for this... almost like you're hitting someone with Leelagra or Magnum. "He died because I am really goood loookeng."

If anything, just give the half or a +3 to str and leave the rest alone. They simply MUST have a minus to Charisma, because they have tusks. TUSKS. If it helps, give them a racial +2 when dealing with pigs and elephants? But serious... 10 is average, and no one with tusks (and pig noses) can be considered pretty. No one. period. Since Half orcs are not known for their shining personalities, that means that the "average" half orc is not going to have a 10 Charisma. They really have nothing going for them in that department.

Personal opinion: Half orcs should have like a -4 charisma and should be reviled by all. They are almost always the product of violent rape. In Faerun, considering half orcs are a playable race, nearly everyone probably knows someone who the orcs got to, and half orcs, innocent or not, are a blaring reminder of what dad did. No human without deep-set issues would ever consider one attractive, so that means to have a high charisma, they need one hell of a personality. Id be all for a bonus to str. & con, but a minus to int and a BIG minus to Cha. But only under the condition that people don't auto-accept them as buddies.

I justify the con bonus because of Tolkien's depiction of orcs being able to cover huge distances quickly because they can basically run all day and night without stopping. I know its not canon to FR, but Tolkien is King.

[wangxiuming]

Beauty isn't the only measure of charisma though, and tusks dont necessarily detract from one's presence or ability to lead. They might even enhance how intimidating someone is, and intimidation is also governed by charisma.

[bipolar bear]

If i am not mistaken dwarfs have a similar negative to charisma. Yet they do not have the stigma as the half orc. Assuming the half orc is the best of both parents then why not give them some loving in the physical sence. Str and con wod be easy to argue, hated by all as well. No other race deals with having everyone hate you on principle (maybe drow). The shear fact that an rp server like sundren follows this too a tee shod imply something extra... be it extra favored class (maybe just fighter for th somewhat civilozed halforcs) or extra stat boost I light of a horrid race deficiency.

Im just sayin the halforc can be just as hated with a little bit. Of dev love.


(on another note im battling auto correct on my BlackBerry so if it sounds like I'm speaking crazy talk you know why)