PvP Disarm

[Intrepid42]

I have never seen weapon-loss from disarm myself, though I have known at least one trustworthy individual who has reported losing equipped weapons forever while fighting NPC's with disarm.

As for my personal opinion. Disarm is an available feat that forms a key part of many melee PC's capability. They already have it tough enough in PvP.

If they are attacked (perhaps with little warning) you can't ask the attacked player to both deal with the surprise and and remember to fight without using their main ability against humanoid creatures. I believe that if you are the defender you should use disarm liberally and at every possible opportunity. If an attacker doesn't want to risk his/her equipped weapon to a bug (as well as to possible loss in case of defeat), then they shouldn't attack, or at least use a cheaper weapon(s). I once had a dwarven warrior who lost over half a dozen waraxes in one fight once (but picked them up afterwards). The onus to have extra equipment handy and be prepared to fight differently should lie with the aggressor.

I believe that using Disarm as an attacker in PvP (or in a mutually-agreed "duel" situation) is where reasonable argument can be had.

[Lugwy]

It is sensible, but it's also a mechanic for which the counter-mechanics don't exist in the engine. Does a disarming combatant wear a harness with room for someone else's greatswords? Empty scabbards? What about the round it should take to pick up/stow a weapon?

And there lies the problem, yes. Usually in the more outrageous circumstances I pretend the opponent just moved/kicked them out of reach, an action that does take time.

What about wrestling your weapon back away from someone who's picked it up and isn't wielding it?

I am terribly sorry for suddenly getting the mental image of a disarmed combatant punching his attacker in the gut and the disarmed weapons falling out of the attacker like some absurd pinata.

[Cornuto]

Going directly into the inventory only happens if the disarmer is unarmed AFAIK:

Bug Notes

As of version 1.12, this feat does not work as described. If you disarm your foe while carrying a weapon, your foe's weapon will fall to the ground. If you instead disarm your foe while fighting barehanded, your foe's weapon ends up in your inventory.

While Disarm destroyed the the target's weapon, if used against NPCs, Improved Disarm usually does nothing even after a *hit*. If a NPC uses Improved Disarm against you, chances are you permanently lose your weapon, even after killing the user, or find it in a completely different place, far from the battlefield.

http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Improved_Disarm

If someone unarmed is disarming you, I'm guessing they're literally just snatching the thing out of your hand and into theirs.

[Peridan]

It is sensible, but it's also a mechanic for which the counter-mechanics don't exist in the engine.

Counter mechanics exist as per the opposed check in the actual ability. It doesn't always work, but a fighter with a higher ab has a better chance of doing so. Furthermore, disarm is disabled for a round or so in the fight. If any action should be taken, maybe the round should be extended to another two? But no fool proof mechanics like the weapon chained to the wrist exist, true.

Does a disarming combatant wear a harness with room for someone else's greatswords? Empty scabbards?

When has that stopped anyone from picking up or carrying bulk items? I highly doubt people would walk around with a full suit of armor, ready to put on at a moment's notice. Realism is important, but I think this might be a less persuasive reason.

What about the round it should take to pick up/stow a weapon? What about wrestling your weapon back away from someone who's picked it up and isn't wielding it?

It does take a round usually to pick someone's weapon up, or at least when combined with either equipping it or having to wait for the new round for any other action.

Bringing in specific real life fighting tactics into NWN2, or even D&D, is debatable at best. Do I need a feat to knock someone's weapon out of their hand in the first place? To knock them down? I don't think this would be a persuasive reason to re-evaluate disarm either.

[Thief Of Navarre]

It is sensible, but it's also a mechanic for which the counter-mechanics don't exist in the engine. Does a disarming combatant wear a harness with room for someone else's greatswords? Empty scabbards? What about the round it should take to pick up/stow a weapon? What about wrestling your weapon back away from someone who's picked it up and isn't wielding it?

About two mins in. That's how you do it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7zvffHu_wo

[Fezzik]

About two mins in. That's how you do it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7zvffHu_wo

Just throw a rock at his head!

* cough *

The Disarm (and knockdown) countdowns could be increased so it can't be as spammed as much... I'm sure Wizards would be happy with that

[Thief Of Navarre]

Last time I checked you cant disarm a blade barrier

[roguethree]

When has that stopped anyone from picking up or carrying bulk items?

Looting and preparing packs and belts of equipment /= stowing a weapon you're not carrying the harness for in the middle of combat.

Bringing in specific real life fighting tactics into NWN2, or even D&D, is debatable at best. Do I need a feat to knock someone's weapon out of their hand in the first place? To knock them down? I don't think this would be a persuasive reason to re-evaluate disarm either.

So you said picking up an opponent's weapon is a valid tactic to try and win PvP, and I said in the interest of fair play, it's not. The server has a big list of rules to adjust player conduct that make up for failings in the game engine. This is what I'm suggesting.

And yes, I would think you'd need a feat to skillfully disarm someone or take them to the ground without getting taken to the ground yourself. It's the difference between trained fighters and scrubs at a bar. There are martial arts developed around neutralizing weapons and taking people to the ground. Yes, you'd need a feat.

[Peridan]

Safe to say we disagree on the matter, but creating a rule like this would restrict viable battle strategies that exist within the engine when there is little need for it. It doesn't create a huge amount of problems overall, and it's more than a little in character. Furthermore, there are measures already in place to prevent overwhelming negatives to a losing party that just need to be enforced stronger.

Adding a rule to restrict a realistic scenario (someone knocking a weapon away, and picking it up to use it) wouldn't add anything to the game, but instead put a further burden on an already tough to swallow PvP environment.

[Vladadier]

Going directly into the inventory only happens if the disarmer is unarmed AFAIK:




If someone unarmed is disarming you, I'm guessing they're literally just snatching the thing out of your hand and into theirs.

Anosh is unarmed. It has NEVER put their item in his inventory. They always fall to the ground. I heard there is a bug with improved disarm that destroyes the weapon, which is why I only have regular disarm

[Talleyman99]

Im more worried about the bug with improved disarm where if you cant use the weapon and disarm someone the weapon is destroyed not dropped on the ground or put into your inventory ie monks fight unarmed cant use the weapon so it does not go into there hands and poofs.... I think the simplest Fix is the rules changed to if your disarmed leave the weapon on the group (both sides) till after the fight then deal with it... Also if you turn subdue on you can have the get item back Rp right there no death crap (most the time)

[Vladadier]

Simple fix could be to remove Improved Disarm. You don't need it. The reason Anosh doesn't leave weapons on the ground, is because first, he doesn't want them to pick them up, and second I don't want the cleanup script to destroy the weapon

[Cornuto]

To the best of my knowledge the cleanup script won't fire if there are PCs in the area.

[KingArthur]

Or, we could just give the weapons back after the fight like a bunch of civil human beings. You know, just because its not nice to steal other peoples stuff even if it was fair. Would you want your stuff taken? I wouldn't.

[Redjack]

From my experiences, most everyone will offer to give your weapons back either IC or OOC. Yes it sucks to have your weapon plucked from your hands unexpectedly. Yes it makes you panic inside when they pick it up before you can. Is it a fair tactic? I believe so. Hopefully the weapon snatcher will consider others feelings and give them back at some point. Do they have to? Nope. If you make a habit of disarming and keeping weapons, will you have any friends? Nope.
Oh BTW, I love you guys and gals.