Level cap

[thaelis]

I liked the old level cap where people couldn't go from level 3 to 20 in like 2 weeks. Kinda makes growing up to level 20 more meaningful, and gives some time for character development instead of:

"Wow, did you see Joe the Mighty?! Last week he was a young boy with no hair on his chest who had a tough time killing Goblins, but now a few days later can single-handedly spank the Bloodmaim army whilst blindfolded and with his hands tied behind his back!"

It won't scare off new players if it starts at like...level 10 or 12? And it can be as short as like 3 or 4 days per level? (4*7 = 28 so basically one month minimum to reach level 20)

EDIT: Maybe this is ridiculous request??? I don't know...did people used to hate the level cap? It seemed to force people to take a break from grinding at least occasionally :/

[Dragor]

Honestly what I would prefer to see instead of the lvl cap is when you reach lvl 10 the amount of xp you get per kill goes down to a rediculously low amount.

[Lugwy]

Though we don't really talk to each other as often as we should, even when together; most EXP runs are silence fests! It would be nice if we commented on stuff in there more often, slowing down EXP gain and building RP in the process.

Could just be me being too hopeful, though...


EDIT: ...and probably underestimating how quickly you can get EXP even with RP.

[Rhifox]

Honestly what I would prefer to see instead of the lvl cap is when you reach lvl 10 the amount of xp you get per kill goes down to a rediculously low amount.

This only encourages people to grind more. If we want people to get off the treadmill and RP more, then reducing the amount of exp gained is not going to accomplish that. A level cap would.

[ManUtd4Ever]

EDIT: Maybe this is ridiculous request??? I don't know...did people used to hate the level cap? It seemed to force people to take a break from grinding at least occasionally :/

I have commented on this issue before. I use to hate the level cap until it was lifted. My first level 20 character took ~24 server days to get to that level. I now have three level 20's and one 19th toon. They all took a fraction of the time. IMO it is less rewarding to achieve 20th level in so little time.

It use to be a 20th level character was a rarity and something to aspire to be. I remember seeing high level characters on the server that you knew just by sight because they were so established. Once you achieved 20th level you became an XP killjoy and it is not as fun; hence no reason to rush.

I believe grinding in a party is RP. It is a group of adventurers heading out on a mission or quest working together. I hate romance RP dribble... and a lot of posturing around the fire, but I do not begrudge those who do enjoy RP'ing in that manner.

While I would support a level cap like it was before... I do not support nerfing XP after say 10th level. IMO that would have the opposite affect... folks would grind more so as to compensate for the minimum XP.

Just my two Euros...

Cheers!

[Lugwy]

I believe grinding in a party is RP. It is a group of adventurers heading out on a mission or quest working together. I hate romance RP dribble... and a lot of posturing around the fire, but I do not begrudge those who do enjoy RP'ing in that manner.

I was thinking more along the lines of communication while proceeding; maybe a callow youth would note how strange the bad guy's lair is while party is breaking in, veteran would scoff and tell him to be quiet, you'd wake the whole base, tracker would note tracks and guess how many are out on patrol right now, that sort of thing.

Not that I object to fuzzy-wuzziness or campfire shenanigans, though.

[Rhifox]

Though we don't really talk to each other as often as we should, even when together; most EXP runs are silence fests! It would be nice if we commented on stuff in there more often, slowing down EXP gain and building RP in the process.

Could just be me being too hopeful, though...

The problem with this is the rest restrictions and buff durations. You're kind of encouraged to rush through the dungeon because you don't want your buffs to wear off halfway through.

[roguethree]

I hate romance RP dribble...

I feel like I've been misreading some signs . . .

Level cap things

I'm not opposed to a level cap, but if we were to go back to one, hopefully it would done in such a way as to not penalize people who don't have as much time to play as others. I'm not in that crowd, but if someone only has 4 hours a week to play, I hope those 4 hours can be spent doing whatever makes that someone happy.

[Dragor]

This only encourages people to grind more. If we want people to get off the treadmill and RP more, then reducing the amount of exp gained is not going to accomplish that. A level cap would.

I don't necissarily agree with you, the lvl cap did NOT stop anyone from grinding. Try walking around by yourself at night trying to log enough hours to up your lvl cap (like the Euro players had to do) and tell me a lvl cap is a good idea.

I've spent over a month with the lvl cap stuck at 12 because when I could play there was 0 people online.

Also Sundren's definition of grinding is 3 continuous hours in one area, even the people most would consider grinders would have a hard time meeting that requirement.

[Dragor]

Another idea would be diminishing returns on xp per server reset based on the # of NPC's who provide your char with XP killed, althoug this would be a pain to script.

Or a flat xp cap per server reset

[Doubtful]

With the changes we've made to the server thus far and changes we are currently working toward introducing it's hoped that there will be a lot more to do than grind stuff!

Players will be able to assume control of faction branches, locations, lives and destinies in a manner that we've never really touched on before.

Hopefully this'll mean that there's a lot less time spent in game clicking on monsters and waiting till they die, and a lot more time plotting against/with each other and trying to further the goals of your characters and their affiliates!

As the saying goes - Be the change you want to see. Ploy, scheme and RP your way across the world, leaving your mark as you go (and not in a cat kind of way. Please). Get your RP on and people will follow.

[Farmboy2003]

I've played here for 3-4 months now, and I've never even reached lvl 10 yet.. Am I doing something wrong? I don't mind no lvl cap, as I've seen total stranger pcs suddenly epic in power appear overnight almost. But that is perhaps a bit sillly. Not everybody needs to be as miserable as me. But I have to jump on the r3 train. No need to punish those that play less than four hours weekly fx

[ManUtd4Ever]

I have to jump on the r3 train. No need to punish those that play less than four hours weekly fx

Point well made twice. As a European based player it is hard to get a good sized group together with any consistency. I should have mentioned that when I was leveling my first 20th level toon there was a good player population in my time zone (GMT +2).

[Snowmane]

I thought there would be alot more fireworks on this thread, but people have given good arguments and been civil, so kudos to everyone.

When I started on Sundren just over a year ago, I had read on the wiki about the level cap and I kept waiting to see when I would hit it. I never did (because it was gone obviously, which I figured out the first time I took a real good look at the text from the Character Stats in game).

Normally, I am not opposed to a level-cap. I like the idea of a controlled growth of a character. But at this point, I think it's a little late to put that cat back in the bag. There are so many high levels around that all this would be is a penalty to new players, and I think that we'd rather encourage new players to join our server instead of scaring them off.

In order for a cap like this to be reimplemented fairly, I believe we'd either need a character wipe (not likely) or we would need to make permadeath a more common thing in order to kill off the higher level characters. Or maybe make raise dead/resurrection harder to get and leave more of a mark on characters, with severe penalties that will make the older characters retire as their abilities start to fade. (Personally, I feel the server is a bit "top-heavy" and static with all the high level characters running around, but of course that's just my opinion. I'd prefer more of a "hardcore" style where people can die horribly and as such, reaching high level has more meaning.)

[Delexos]

This seems to be one of those eternal debates, thoughts tend to sway one way then another, I have been around the server on and off for a pretty long time and have encountered it both with various xp slowing methods and without.

Honestly I am pretty confident that I can say that this is a subject no one will ever be truly unified over.

My understanding of the current trend of thought to the 'grind' is more along the lines of this: people want to be level 20, so lets make it easy for them, give them a good opportunity to earn the sort of gear they can really find useful and then let them make the world what they want it to be.

It is actually a positive shift in the right direction, yes things are not quite at that level yet, bugs will always raise their heads when you try and make big changes to an established system, but with the new loot tables that are currently in the process of being fixed, the new colour coded mob spawns to indicate varying levels of difficulty, and an 'xp grind' ethic geared towards making the whole trek to the top levels smoother, I really don't think I could or even would want to complain.

One thing that people have mentioned in this thread is the issue that once you get into a dungeon it tends to be a silent murder-fest. Now I know some people will actively try and roleplay in a dungeon and that's brilliant, this is a roleplay server after all, and I certainly give Kudos to those who do make time for rp in dangerous places, however unlike p&p, rping in a dungeon in NwN2 carries much more risk simply because it is an automated process and not something governed by a dungeon master.

In P&P the group's dm can choose to hold off on that 'zerg rush' he had planned because the players suddenly start getting into some deep and meaningful rp, in NwN2 spawns trigger on timers; spawn triggers, and so forth. The time it takes a player to type out a descriptive paragraph about how their character is feeling might just be the time it takes that big spawn which nearly wiped your party out to pop back up again.

It is a difficult thing to balance because as much as I love to encourage roleplay, I also do not want to end up dead because I felt like I had to stop and chat and emote whilst delving into the bottom of a creepy, dark dungeon.

I can certainly see why people might want to reconsider bringing back some sort of level cap, I also realise that much of the way my thoughts come out here will probably make it seem like I am discounting one of the biggest aspects of a characters roleplay, and that is the overall journey a creation goes through, from 'wet-behind-the-ears-whelp' to 'mighty-badass-of-doom/glory'

But personally for me I would be just as happy to see everyone start off at level 20, all the grind is out of the way and we can get down to working on plans to help shape Sundren, either politically through back-handed deals, alliances, trade etc etc.. or physically, by lets say.. making a city vanish into the clouds.

I hope my thoughts don't come out too convoluted, I have just woken up and have yet to have my first coffee of the day, but to summarise my thoughts I think the dev team are on the right track, I feel like my characters can stop worrying about how many times they will need to grind a dungeon between rp to get that next precious level and keep me in range of my potential rp competitors/allies, and can just focus on interacting with those competitors/allies instead.