Level cap

[Thief Of Navarre]

I feel like I've been misreading some signs . . .


I'm not opposed to a level cap, but if we were to go back to one, hopefully it would done in such a way as to not penalize people who don't have as much time to play as others. I'm not in that crowd, but if someone only has 4 hours a week to play, I hope those 4 hours can be spent doing whatever makes that someone happy.

I suppose you can have a cookie for that. Many of us hardly have time to get online in these dark times.

[Farmboy2003]

Im gonna toss this out there.... this is not realism this is guys walking around in fullplate and all hours of the day and night with flaming swords. Wizards holding the power of the universe, and priest making the dead walk. This is DnD. you are suppose to adventure and kill monsters and take there loot and get xp's. That is the heart of this all. The setting is where we do all this though, and we should be mindful of this at all times and be ready to rp at a drop of a hat!.

Then let us not call it realism but suspension of disbelief. Rp boils down to stories and storytelling. I find it a bad story, or story world world, where freddy the fighter hecomes a dragon slayer over night. It makes it hard to believe all the other fantastical things going on, and essentially ruins things for some. It's a literay tern

[GodBeastX]

But summarizing what I'm reading is:

"You should force people to wait until I believe they earned the levels."

If you play D&D P&P, anybody, run 1 dungeon. One FULL dungeon, not a three hallway cave, see what level you are afterwards. Start level 1...

Sundren actually levels you slower. The reason D&D feels like you are progressing so slow is you gotta do this in sessions that span weeks, but in game time hasn't moved at all.

It really doesn't take a fuck ton of warfare to become an expert badass.

Take the people in WW2. There's a guy who single handedly did so much badass shit, never having been in a war before, when they made a movie about him, he asked them to tone it down because he didn't think anybody would believe what he did.

I think people underestimate how quickly Humans can learn things. If you were in a gunfire fight for three days straight with men constantly coming at you, what would you be like afterwards? (Other than insane)

I for one subscribe to the open leveling and let people worry about their own kool-aid and morality of it. Someone grinding from 1 to 20 in a couple days is rare enough for me not to care.

[Farmboy2003]

I'm sorry if my last post came across as hot-headed - I just got peeved by the whole term 'realism'. I'm not really sure if I advocate a level cap, I have no idea how to implement one - And The Butcher's suggestion was actually quite nice. I think it's a shame how quickly players level apart from each other.

Sometimes I come across a really well-made character that makes perfect sense, and has loads of opportunies for my characters. A week later the opportunity's passed, As they are inhabiting other areas of the server, whille I'm still bogging it down in Viridale. I think it's a darn shame, but I'm not sure anything can be done about it. It can be viewed as wanting everybody else to be as miserable as oneself, but it's a really poor simplification.

[GodBeastX]

You should try looking at it the other way, one day you guys will be badasses together...

... if the encounters get balanced soon

[Cornuto]

One day (Monday) Saulus will return from Poland and there shall be much rejoicing and updating of servers.

[Fezzik]

One day (Monday) Saulus will return from Poland and there shall be much rejoicing and updating of servers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enSYlCEz5VI

[Mournas]

Also, for those who have multiple 18+ characters, which DOES include myself, it doesn't make sense to use them as an example of why we need to put the cap back when we don't RP those characters hardly ever. IF you aren't roleplaying them, then they don't count, period. I have many screw-around characters, but I only count 3 of my characters in my vault as mattering at all, the rest are just there because I wanted to test something, or help someone level, or I needed to have a crafter, or any other of a variety of reasons. They don't get rp'd, so they don't count.

This sums it up pretty well. I am always crunching out build ideas in my head. Sure, when I come up with a build I will open the OC and make a level 20 or 21 (depending on the build) and summon up a full +1 set of gear and run a few tests, however in Sundren I cant instantly spawn a 20th character. Lets face it, many times people RP their characters as slightly indifferent when they are low to mid level. There are, in my opinion, two main reasons for this: New characters lack experience - not just xp - but also with the local Sundren demographics and how they will interact with said demographics, also sense they lack the xp they handle RP differently. A level 20 will RP differently than a level 5. This is true even in real life when you're not role playing.

I spent eight years in the United States Navy, and when I first joined I was a clueless Seaman Recruit (E1), I excelled at my specialty and made Petty Officer First Class (E6) in a total of 5 years. Every time I made rank I had more responsibilities and eventually I came to understand the Navy. I was, and still am, fluent in being a Sailor. I grew comfortable, confident, and I understood what was expected of me. So hear is what I am getting at - when your characters level up (fast or slow, what ever your style is) they have more skills, feats, and abilities. They are capable of doing more to affect the path in which they walk. They are more capable growing into their identities.

What I am saying is not that a level 5 sucks at RP vs a level 20, but lets face it a level 5 with a 15 Hide and Move Silently might as well be carrying a lantern and playing the flute while he in stealth. Yes there is much more to discuss on this topic but I have to go to class.

[Doubtful]

I feel I should add in quite how much I despise D&D and its bloody awful class/level based character mechanics.

No level cap will keep it sensible.

[Delexos]

I say we rip out all of the D&D mechanics in Sundren and replace it with a Gurps system.

Of course I might just want to do that to bring my awesome cyborg D.a.n.t.e on to the server.. but even still..

At the end of the day it is hard to fully and properly express the negative aspects that one feels about issues such as levelling/grinding etc. without coming off as someone who is just whining. Sometimes a good point can easily be misinterpreted by the negative vocabulary used to put the point across. All too often posts come off as sounding like the writer is just sour because others get to play more than they do, and perhaps some of them are a little sour about it in some parts, it is only natural and one of the reasons why I personally stopped playing fee paying mmo's, watching as a bunch of friends blaze their characters far ahead of me quickly made me grouchy and resentful.

Problem is that there is no fair way around the problem, people will naturally come online at different times and play for different periods be it real life or video entertainment we simply can't get away from the rat race.

My point here is that I feel it is fruitless to try and change how the game is played in a way that holds people back in favour of those who simply do not get as much access to the world. This is why I am 876% behind any idea that makes the levelling easier. Personally I choose to consider level 1-19 as my personal tutorial in how to play my character, it allows me enough time to figure out both the obvious and the more subtle nuances that shape my creation's personality, so that by the time I hit 20 I know exactly who he is, what direction he is heading, what his end game plans are, and hopefully how he is likely to react to any given situation.

Perhaps I am alone in that perception but that's just the way I choose to see it, that doesn't mean anyone below level 20 is not a full character and it certainly doesn't mean I will ignore anyone who isn't level 20, I have had some pretty entertaining roleplay situations with plenty of lower level characters and hope to continue doing so. But the main reason why I personally stick to playing the same fire headed guy all the time instead of a plethora of different toons is that to me Ignus has now reached that point in his character development where practically everything mechanical is finally carved in stone, no more annoying level ups, no more skill point distribution, choosing of powers/feats etc.

You only have to ask someone like GBX about how I prefer to rp and you will find out that to me I would be just as happy using a character with no stats at all, just an identity a concept and a personality.

1-20 is just a grind to get all your skill points, the faster you can get that junk out of the way the faster you can dedicate 100% of your attention to making your creation really come to life and effect the world around them.

Bit of a ramble here, but I am pretty juiced up on energy drinks to help me stay awake during this 12hr night shift.

Thanks for listening.

[Fezzik]

I say we rip out all of the D&D mechanics in Sundren and replace it with a Gurps system.

I don't think all the level 20's would appreciate getting killed in one round by the occasional fluke critical to the eye in the first round of combat though... and the mages wouldn't want to learn all those prereq's for their spells, even though it makes more sense than having the ability to harness a fireball that can clear a town square in so little time learning

[Mournas]

I don't think all the level 20's would appreciate getting killed in one round by the occasional fluke critical to the eye in the first round of combat though... and the mages wouldn't want to learn all those prereq's for their spells, even though it makes more sense than having the ability to harness a fireball that can clear a town square in so little time learning

So wrong man ... I remember Techie in Alternity ... such a fun character and he took a phaser right through the eye and it melted his brain ... unfortunately if you lose whats in your dome in Alternity there is no coming back ... argh!

Are you kidding me? I would love a DM to get involved with a caster I make and have them make me actually learn to cast the spells even if this means they wipe my my spell book. I love the studious aspect of wizards. Hell even if I was a sorcerer and the DM picked the spells suited to the lore of the character. I strongly feel that sorcerers do not have control over the spells they learn, it is part of their supernatural ethos.

[thaelis]

Im gonna toss this out there.... this is not realism this is guys walking around in fullplate and all hours of the day and night with flaming swords. Wizards holding the power of the universe, and priest making the dead walk.

That is very true, but when the parts of the game that are supposed to be realistic are unrealistic, it makes all that magical and heroic stuff seem well...pretty lame.

Like how we used to have bandages that could heal pretty much your full HP, and be applied during combat (not even provoking attacks of opportunity). It made healing potions and spells look kinda weak.

Having said that, I think it all depends on people's play style. I prefer my characters to level up slowly, give them time to mature a bit and "grow into their boots". But obviously some disagree with that, so maybe the level cap would be a bad idea.

[Fezzik]

Are you kidding me? I would love a DM to get involved with a caster I make and have them make me actually learn to cast the spells even if this means they wipe my my spell book. I love the studious aspect of wizards. Hell even if I was a sorcerer and the DM picked the spells suited to the lore of the character. I strongly feel that sorcerers do not have control over the spells they learn, it is part of their supernatural ethos.

That's because we've played Gurps and know how much fun those little tiny "useless' spells can be in a pinch!

[Doubtful]

Levelling? Realistic? DnDs approach to character progression doesn't just shit on realism, it holds it face down in a pool of slurry till the bubbles stop then stab it in the heart with a dagger made of frozen piss, just for good measure.

Rather than restrict people with some arbitrary level cap (no progress till you stop doing it wrong) I'd much rather see a lower level spread with much more cross over between killing grounds.

By Odin's beard I want to vomit on D&D sometimes.