Dungeon Balancing

[Rhifox]

One of the complaints I heard before the encounter re-do was that there wasn't enough spawns in the area to make it a viable place to level. Do you think its tipped too far in the other direction?

Having just traveled up it myself, I agree with Altherion. There's a bit too many spawns. I didn't find any of the encounters difficult at 19 (with caster level 18, now :P), it just felt too dense. Personally I preferred it the way it was before, but I like desolate empty tundras. >.>

[caterpillar]

I was exploring aqueducts at level 4 and if I compare this dungeon to any other dedicated to low levels like Sharan Hills, it's empty. Just one or two gelatinous Cubes for one area or in another area rocky thingies plus one hafling attacker. Dead ends of the aqueducts dungeon, where I would expact some stronger NPC with treasure, are empty with nothing in it so it makes no sence not to run only the main path ... to meet the one little hafling girl. Even the dungeon by the pioneers way, where are the ghosts of dead soldiers, is full in comparison to this. Some rat infestation in the area would be nice or some smaller sisters to the gelatinous cube like spawn one big and make there three little siblings to it. In Sharan Hills there are also spawned about 4 to 5 greenlings at once. XP-wise ... if this is english word ... Sharan Hills is also better. There 32 to 128 XP for one kill. In those aqueducts 32 XP ... 128 XP is a bit steep I think. Overall there is no need to stay in the city for the low level, because there are actually no shops selling ordinary armor.

[Lollercide]

On another note, I'm guessing those Elder Frost Elementals have super vulnerability to fire spells, like the giants. Thats something else I dislike. If a creature has 150% or 200% vulnerability to an element, its insanely easy for some players to kill (two delayed blast fireballs = 10 dead giants), and super tough with no xp for everyone else.

To give a different opinion, I like this. I believe that some classes should excel at grinding particular locations than others. For example, a paladin will grind Argyle Keep much better than a fighter due to their bless weapon and holy sword spells. Similarly, classes that have fire enchantments and fire spells will do well against giants and ice elementals.

Another thing to consider is that "dense" areas are also better for some classes than others. A wizard who powerbuffs a summon and stands invisibly likely won't see the advantage in this, but a monk with circle kick and cleave, a fighter with whirlwind, or a frenzied berserker with supreme cleave will. That being said, I do not think that every area should be one set level of dense or scarce; variety should be present, and I like this variety.

[ManUtd4Ever]

I like the changes to Cold Climb and would recommend keeping the volume of spawns about where they are... As for difficulty rating, I felt the green lettered ice elementals were much more difficult that the two red lettered Ice Golems in the Cave. The massive spawn outside of Bristlebeard's Hollow had a nice combination of ranged (missile) and melee attacks. This is the only area that may be a little OP for a pure melee type without the ability to stop the sustained spamming of missile attacks.

Cheers!

EDIT: The loot is a little underwhelming on Cold Climb. This would be true at anytime, but now especially since it has improved significantly in other areas.

[thaelis]

To give a different opinion, I like this. I believe that some classes should excel at grinding particular locations than others. For example, a paladin will grind Argyle Keep much better than a fighter due to their bless weapon and holy sword spells. Similarly, classes that have fire enchantments and fire spells will do well against giants and ice elementals.

Sure, I agree that they should be weaker against fire. But whats wrong with like +20-25% weakness? With their massive weakness the designers seem to feel obligated to lower their challenge rating ridiculously low to compensate. Much like undead have super low CR's to account for clerics turning them (I think this is kinda weird logic)

Maybe if they only had 25% fire weakness the monster-makers wouldn't feel like they need to make those DR 10/- critical-immune elementals the CR of a stoned one-armed leprechaun

EDIT: Forgot to mention in my Cold Climb review, the baby snow dragon thing is so cool!!! Was that there before the 2nd sundering? Anyway, it was a little too easy, especially for something with a Red name. Went down in like 3 rounds.

[Saulus]

The Aqueducts is something brand new players are going to encounter, we don't want it too difficult by any means, that being said we can increase the number of spawns in the Aqueducts, we just want to make sure it's not overwhelming for a single lvl 3 PC.

[Cornuto]

EDIT: Forgot to mention in my Cold Climb review, the baby snow dragon thing is so cool!!! Was that there before the 2nd sundering? Anyway, it was a little too easy, especially for something with a Red name. Went down in like 3 rounds.

The spine area is aimed at level 11's, if you're running a level 17 even the red-level stuff is going to be a push-over.

[thaelis]

The spine area is aimed at level 11's, if you're running a level 17 even the red-level stuff is going to be a push-over.

Just saying...I'm sure 3 or 4 level 11's can do a lot more damage than me alone, and it died in MAX 3 rounds, probably 2.

[Delexos]

Noticing a lack of boss spawn in Whurest. I came online about an hour and a half ago and had a crack at Whurest, this would be my first run of the place in a day or two.

The spawns are definately harder now which is a great thing, a great many spawns have been pumping critical hits against my 50% concealed character requiring much more careful planning than previously needed, in fact I almost died at the forge master when he knocked me down to -7. Thankfully I stabilised in time and my damage over time vitriolic blast was able to take him out before the short timer on my retributive inivs wore off and he could land the finishing blow.

However I finally managed to force my way through to the final room to find nothing in there except a discarded loot bag with a common club in it. I figured someone may have been in recently so I waited around, more spawns appeared in all the other areas, in fact the forge master himself even respawned, but still no final boss spawn.

I realise it must be on a timer to stop players from mass farming the location, and that is a good thing, however it is quite disheartening to fight through all those other spawns just to get to an empty last room. I am planning to loiter around on the third level of the dungeon in an attempt to try and figure out how long the spawn timer actually is, but I would perhaps suggest that if the final boss is on an exceptionally long timer then maybe consider putting the rest of the spawns on the same timer too? it would indicate to players much earlier that there is no reward waiting for successful completion, especially when the path to that reward is so much more difficult now.

The risk of death in Whurest is much greater than ever before, again I see this as a great improvement. but even still, after getting all that way I would be lying if I said I didn't feel bitter that my chance at getting a crack at the treasure room had been denied.

[roguethree]

Did you try walking all the way up to the secret door, even stepping through? We encountered what you're describing, and for some reason, when I walked up to the secret door, the boss and his minions spawned in a corner of the room instead of their usual locations.

[Delexos]

Interesting, I had not tried the secret door, however I just gave this a shot. Unfortunately it seems to not do anything for me, I have run around the entire room, including the steps to the secret door, I have opened the secret door and also passed through to "Use" the locked treasure room door.

There is still no spawn in the boss room, so perhaps it is either still on some sort of cool down, or there might be something else happening that I am unaware of, especially if the room spawn is starting to act oddly as roguethree describes above.

Thanks for the tip though roguethree.

**Edit**
It is approximately 20:58 my time, I entered the Whurest dungeon at approximately 18:55.
After encountering the issues with the final boss room that have been noted above and in the last post I made, I have just left the final boss room after deciding to just leave the dungeon entirely and as I left the room, the boss and minions have just spawned in.

depending upon how long ago the boss was last defeated, this might suggest a possible 2 hour respawn window.

[Cornuto]

I'll check out the boss spawns, they shouldn't have changed so I'm not sure why it'd suddenly stop spawning.

What R3 describes above was actually me manually spawning the boss while I was online when I saw he didn't appear.

[Saulus]

Lots more dungeons to test out other than the Spine. Keep the feedback coming guys.

[Delexos]

There are indeed many more dungeons, one last comment on the latest version of Whurest though - Two thumbs up on tweaking the boss. Ignus didn't stand a chance, the moment he walked in and the boss spawned *WHAM* goodnight Iggy.

I'd like to get an interested group to run through it with me though, see how it handles when being run as intended, in a party to see what the survival rate might be.

[Rhifox]

There are indeed many more dungeons, one last comment on the latest version of Whurest though - Two thumbs up on tweaking the boss. Ignus didn't stand a chance, the moment he walked in and the boss spawned *WHAM* goodnight Iggy.

I'd like to get an interested group to run through it with me though, see how it handles when being run as intended, in a party to see what the survival rate might be.

Give me a holler sometime and I'll help out.