Dungeon Balancing

[Snowmane]

No one expects the inquisition!

[Saulus]

Keep the feedback coming guys, the more we get the more viable areas you have to level up! We have lots of places like Ixis, Mirakus Mines, Sestra Caves, Mossdale, the Advent Crypt along the Pioneer's Way, The Spine, Shar's Abaddon, Sharahan Hills etc. etc

[ManUtd4Ever]

Rhifox and Delexos' feedback is very detailed and outstanding. I could not do a similar report justice. So I apologize up front for my report on the Duergar’s Cave, where I am working off the assumption that this dungeon has not been updated adjusted since the update.

Before Sundren II, I was able to take Angus Ironforge to the Duergar's Cave and solo the majority of the dungeon… right up until he got stunned and spammed with various missile spells in the lower levels for a quick one way ticket to the Fugue. Angus is a melee toon capable of a mid-50's AC in stance or with ICE.

After Delexos' post about Ignus Pyre - Level 21 Warlock - kicking ass and taking names, I decided I would give the dungeon another try. I received some nice buffs (stoneskin, GWM, greater heroism, etc.) Well... suffice to say I was beat like a circus monkey in the first anteroom by dark defenders, zeolots, and other casters. I do not expect to solo this dungeon as a melee toon, but as a Dwarven Defender I feel it is my obligation to try and free my kinsmen, so I make my way there occasionally.

My two cents is that this dungeon is special and should be hard, but as is… it is way harder than it once was.

Cheers!

[Saulus]

The only currently announced "epic" dungeons are Whurest, and the Abyss. Mossdale still sits in the 15-20ish range.

[Cornuto]

My two cents is that this dungeon is special and should be hard, but as is… it is way harder than it once was.

Cheers!

That's weird, it definitely shouldn't have gotten harder.

You did this yesterday or today?

[ManUtd4Ever]

Yesterday. I did it in the afternoon (GMT +2). Please understand, in comparison/contrast the last time I did this dungeon was before Sundren II.

[Snowmane]

Mirakus Mines

*** SPOILERS DON'T READ IF YOU WANT TO EXPLORE THE MINES FOR YOURSELF! ***

1st attempt - level 9 rogue

2nd attempt - level 15 (7 druid/1 fighter/7ice fury)

OK, so first I came into the mines with my rogue. The very first spawn has been changed from humanoids to vermin. This pretty much killed my ability to feint. There were also slightly larger number of spawns. Long story short, she barely beat the first spawn and was forced to retreat. Although this was aggravating, a solo level 9 was probably not meant to do well in that dungeon. My only real complaint was that one of the vermin did a level drain on her. While I am not opposed to level drain, it would probably be better to reserve such a drastic special ability for the second level of the mines. Especially since I was unable to find any restoration anywhere on the ground. (I believe you can get it in Sundren City, but I don't know this for sure.) Being a level drained rogue pretty much crippled her ability to continue.

So, since I wanted to see what else there was, I switched to my ice fury using death ward to protect himself from level drain. I noticed several of the monsters now do magic damage. I like this. Typically, most of the denizens of the mine do only 10-20 damage, making the stoneskin line of spells extremely effective. Now some damage will almost always leak through. Thumbs up on that! I also love that the hulks now have picks instead of clubs. Definitely seems more appropriate.

I noticed more variety of monster types in the spawns too. With some being big and some being small it was much more difficult to effectively use the choke points to keep fom being overwhelmed, increasing the challenge of the dungeon.

I was only able to make it to the first room of the second floor so I can't comment much on that - hopefully I can find a group later to explore the changes there.

[Cornuto]

Mirakus Mines

*** SPOILERS DON'T READ IF YOU WANT TO EXPLORE THE MINES FOR YOURSELF! ***

1st attempt - level 9 rogue

2nd attempt - level 15 (7 druid/1 fighter/7ice fury)

OK, so first I came into the mines with my rogue. The very first spawn has been changed from humanoids to vermin. This pretty much killed my ability to feint. There were also slightly larger number of spawns. Long story short, she barely beat the first spawn and was forced to retreat. Although this was aggravating, a solo level 9 was probably not meant to do well in that dungeon. My only real complaint was that one of the vermin did a level drain on her. While I am not opposed to level drain, it would probably be better to reserve such a drastic special ability for the second level of the mines. Especially since I was unable to find any restoration anywhere on the ground. (I believe you can get it in Sundren City, but I don't know this for sure.) Being a level drained rogue pretty much crippled her ability to continue.

So, since I wanted to see what else there was, I switched to my ice fury using death ward to protect himself from level drain. I noticed several of the monsters now do magic damage. I like this. Typically, most of the denizens of the mine do only 10-20 damage, making the stoneskin line of spells extremely effective. Now some damage will almost always leak through. Thumbs up on that! I also love that the hulks now have picks instead of clubs. Definitely seems more appropriate.

I noticed more variety of monster types in the spawns too. With some being big and some being small it was much more difficult to effectively use the choke points to keep fom being overwhelmed, increasing the challenge of the dungeon.

I was only able to make it to the first room of the second floor so I can't comment much on that - hopefully I can find a group later to explore the changes there.

For reference I believe the mines are balanced to level 12's (will double check this), so a solo level 9 rogue shouldn't expect to flourish there. The fact that a level 15 got turned back is a little disconcerning. The vermin should relatively weak and fall easily, if this isn't the case then I'll have to adjust them down a lot.

The level drain is something that must have gotten in inadvertantly. I'll remove that tonight.

Did you notice any changes to the loot?

[Snowmane]

To be honest, my level 15 probably could have pushed harder, but I wasn't in the mood to visit the fugue! I mean who knows what kind of nasty changes might have been made to the second floor! Remember, not all level 15s are made the same and my inability to use my Aura (since they heal from it) reduces my damage output quite a bit and a 31 AC really only goes so far (especially if you get dispeled). My level 14 fighter/frenzied berserker still seems to lay the smack down with her massive damage output.

The vermin were easy for the level 15, but not the level 9, as would be expected. I don't think any adjustment is needed except for the level drain.

As for loot - I didn't notice any difference but then I wouldn't say I was down there long enough to really test that.

[Farmboy2003]

I'll throw in my opinion of the Spittlefists then!

Dungeon:
Sharan Hills (and a brief stop in the Sharan wood) And spittlefist dungeons

Party Composition (Number of people/Levels/Etc):
Party A: rogue2/ranger2
Party B: rogue2/ranger 2 + 4th level swashbuckler/rogue (ask Fezzik)

Feedback:
I find the new spawns in the sharan hills most excellent! usually the spawns are 2-3 white and 2 green goblins. The quantity and different quality of the spawns makes for more interesting combat experiences and challenge. Around the entrance to the cave itself a blue goblin will add to the spawn either a bard or a shaman. The spells they use are disrupting but I find them very well balanced. I seem to die as often as I used to, but overall it seems easier even though there's more enemies. This is reliant on which class you play however. My Wiz2/rogue2 has a harder time with the larger mobs, but that's to be expected.

It is a shame that neither party A nor B spawn the blue goblins inside the spittlefist caves, itself. On the first level of the caves by the door there is an odd spawn point, near the 2-piece gate. The white goblins are spawned at first, and it is possible to lure them out with a bow (they also set off the trap, making it useless). The green goblins will first spawn when you near the gate. This seems clumsy, and makes the next 2 green goblins spawn on the other side of the door, giving you 4 green ones to fight with.

The spittlefist leader seems to be dealing less damage than usual, and the banite priests seem to have more hitpoints, meaning they can get off a few spells - nice! It is very nice that no goblins spawn in the antechamber leading up to the bridge to the leader, as it often made a mess of things. Party B made short work of going to the leader (the rest system is a big help in this regard), But I have no fear that Party A cannot do the same - but hammering down the doors myself is quite the test of patience. I am not sure whether I find the rope ladder exit 'too easy' if you know what I mean.

The small camp in the Sharan woods were only occupied by a single green goblin, which I found strange. To top that off, I spawned 3 white and 2 green just by the entrance to the undead cave there. Wierd. The banedead cave seems it's good old self. They die after two hits with a greatsword.

Are items/gold loot adequate or not?
I went last night and this afternoon. Last night the loot was dreadful. of note was one scroll of Longstrider, which the grubby little halfling stole. This afternoon produced more loot, but it seemed to me that the quality of it was on par with before the second sundering. The goblin chief drops no loot whatsoever(not tested after todays update).

Bearing in mind that a new newbie experience is part of the second sundering update, I find it sad that the old quests are gone. Eliminating the Spittlefist chief is a far more hollow experience, when it's not a quest. I am also unsure where to find goblin ears for the alchemical recipe that gives a bonus to listen. (could they be added to lootscript, only to be dropped by goblins?) It also seems to me that the gold/kill ration has been lowered substantially. 1 gold per goblin seemed average.

All in all: More blue spawns, more loot and more quests!

[Dragor]

Dungeon:
Mossdale Forest, Mossdale Forge

Party Composition (Number of people/Levels/Etc):
Stormlord Lvl 19, 37-39 AC, 41-45 short term AC, 55-75 damage 95-120 crit dmg, with Stonebody, 20% conceilment from projectiles

Feedback:
All of the archers AB needs to go down OR they need to not spawn in huge mobs, I was noticing the AB of the white ones was 23-26 range, this is fine for the AC that most PC's have in this area in small doses (my SL is on the low side for AC). Archers were doing 18-26ish dmg through my DR

Anything I could get close to I could take out pretty handily, including the breakers which previously had absurd AC (I take it that this was lowered?).

The loot system doesn't appear to be working yet, still getting stuff like salted water and other wonderful treasures of the sort. XP gain was 8 for whites in the forest and 12 for greens in the forest, maybe a little less than what I could get before but not by much.

The archers would definatly be fine as they are if there weren't 7-8 of them at once.

Also the archers start targeting and shooting before I can even see them, their "notice you" range is way too high, everything else seems to have a normal range. This is most likely the reason that the archers tend to mob up on you if there are alot of them near each other.

[Cornuto]

Fixing the stuff mentioned above, and GBX has cleared up some stuff with the new loot system so I'll be updating encounters to correctly use it tonight.

[Cornuto]

New loot system should now be working -- with one caveat, it only works on creatures and not on chests at the moment (whurest treasure room is major sad for the moment). GBX will have a fix in soon.

Privateers, Spittlefist, Whurest, Mirakus, and Necropolis have been updated to use the new system so far.

(Need to reduce the AC of the elementals in Mirakus)

[Rhifox]

Dungeon:
Argyle Keep - Derelict Chapel

Party Composition (Number of people/Levels/Etc):
Necromancer 6/Palemaster 10 with Death Knight (Fighter 10/Undead 10) summon.

Buffed with:
(Self) Mage Armor, Energy Immunity (Fire), Superior Resistance, Invisibility
(Pet) Mage Armor, Protection from Evil, Burning Blade, Greater Magic Weapon, Keen Weapon, Displacement, Haste, Stoneskin, Spiderskin, Greater Heroism, Draconic Might, Energy Immunity (Fire)

Pet had 150 hp, 31 AC, +26/+21+16 AB, 1-10 +24 (Crit 17-20/x2) +4 Physical +1d6 Fire damage. Plus 50% Concealment and damage reduction.

Feedback:
Thanks to the fixes to the pathing, this place can now be attempted. It's rather difficult, on par with Mossdale, but to be expected considering how much exp they are giving. The major problems for the grinder are three: Dispels, heals, and spawn closeness. The dispels are the most major, as the corruptors like to use them frequently. This will ruin anyone's day. The spawn closeness is very annoying, however. This results in one often pulling multiple spawns at once, quickly getting overwhelmed (especially when the dispels start flying). The heals are the least problematic, only being an issue because the above two already cause enough trouble on their own. Namely, it makes it very difficult to beat down the corruptors fast enough before they get their dispels off, when they often get healed to full right before they die.

The spawn closeness also causes an issue in that you pretty much have to clear the entire front area before you can pause to bandage/rebuff/etc, as there's nowhere to do so where you won't get spotted by another spawn. My pet died after the second spawn I killed, and there was nowhere I could go to summon a new one (short of exiting the area and doing it outside). Even when I found a little alcove, they ended up converging on me halfway through buffing (and then dispelling all of said buffs).

I think Mossdale is still slightly more difficult due to sheer numbers, but this area is certainly more annoying.

Also, fuck Quivering Palm. Just saying. <.<

Loot:
None so far.

[Saulus]

We also need some feedback on the various encounters in the Aqueducts / Back Alley housing of Sundren City. New PCs will face them so it would be good to use a new character.