Zone of Revelation reveals too much?

[Raksha]

Alas, part of the stealth problem is that the game implements it so terribly for a roleplay PW that it cannot properly work.

Remember, automatic spot and listen checks take place every round. To observe anything without being caught, a sneaker -must- be 20 above the nearest possible detection score... or over the course of a five-minute conversation, they will be found out. On the other hand, demanding a single check at the start DM-event style means that with the item imbalance that corrects the above problem leads to the utter inabillity to detect a sneaker with just one roll.

Therefore, I think we're just going to have to labor within the system as it is, and provide counters. My personal opinion is that the spell ought to be shifted to secondary casters (paladins! Rangers! Remember them) and that they need a bunch more love anyhow... and/or it's six seconds per level. Making it a countermeasure instead of a long-term Screw You, Rogues. But I leave this one to the server staff, as NWN2's stealth is so horrible that it cannot easily be fixed.

Good luck, guys. Hats off to you for trying. ^^

[AsuraKing]

Im not really picking a side since I dont have a stealth toon and also I've only ever used the spell in plans (yeah plans... wasnt actually able to make it to the event) for a guarding contract. Buuuuuuttttttttttt here's my 3 cents.

I dont really see anything tooooooo bad with it (yet again I've never played a stealth toon...) but as long as it isnt an aura I dont see anything tooooooooo bad with it. Most stealth characters end up having HiPS so if they enter the zone they just leave it and POOF they're gone again. Also it's only a zone not an aura so if a stealth toon REALLY wants to kill someone thats in the zone just chill hidden outside of it until that person leaves.


PS: As a disclaimer Im not gunna lie, I only read the first page of posts before making this post....

[Redjack]

While I have no opinion on the spell Zone of Revelation. I do not believe I have ever cast it with one of my characters.
I will say that taking the spell away from clerics seems punitive without any solid reason other then just reducing the number of characters that can cast it.

[Kaizen]

Cutting out ZoR from the cleric/FS spell list would help cut down on the power of the most ridiculously powerful class on the server. Which, by some of the past nerf to select classes, is def A-Okay.

Ask all my druid buddies that are Master of Many Forms or Ice Furies.

[Kaybrie]

I don't see why the most powerful classes needs a little something extra to jip some of the least powerful classes. ZoR is dumb IMO, clerics and FS already get to strut around like it's nobody's buisness, completely uncaring of ambushes due to the disgusting line of immunities they get, combined with quite frankly being statisticly superior to everything else with the exception of if a wizard gets the drop on them with a Mordenkainens Disjunction, and they don't reply with a Implosion.

More power to the rogues, anyone who has the balls to play that class to it's fullest extent should be allowed to enjoy the fruits of the class without getting turbo-stomped even further by a class that can hit as hard as a rogue just auto-attacking as they do when full on sneak/death attacking. While being 10x more durable.

On Rangers and Paladins though, completely in favor, THOSE classes deserve something nice for the same reasons that rogues need love.

[DM_Acorn]

I would not be opposed to removing it from the divine lists.

Bards(6th), paladins, and rangers (4th)?

I know that spells that list seconds behave differently than ones that say minutes.

A one hour per caster level spell does not last a RL hour, for example.
How long does this spell last RL time. If it is 40 MIN that is too long. If it is 4 min it is short enough.

[Seheren]

I am all for more classes having spot/listen. Just because I am a fighter does not mean that I am blind as a bat, and deaf like your aunt Mable. In fact I would think awareness of your surroundings should be a critical skill for any Melee char. Why shouldn't they have spot/listen?

[Cornuto]

Able. Learner.

[Kaeldorn]

Able learner will do you no good if you don't take at least one level in a class that has spot/listen as class skills. Going high wisdom + full skill progression barely cuts it, and often still doesn't. If you only get half progression you'll only be able to spot sneakies in full plate armour, or sneakers of significantly lower level.

[Cornuto]

True enough, but this is why multi-classing exists.

Its just my opinion that a character entirely dedicated to stealth should expect not to be spotted by anyone who isn't equally invested in spotting them.

[Kaybrie]

Its just my opinion that a character entirely dedicated to stealth should be expect to not be spotted by anyone who isn't equally invested in spotting them.

This, echoed a thousand times this.

[Kaeldorn]

I disagree. Because spot and listen are passive/reactive. They are only of use if someone else employs stealth. People who are donning spot/listen gear and put extra points in wisdom or feats are doing it 'just in case'. On top of that, the only spot using class that really benefits from a wisdom higher than 14 is the druid and arguably the monk, whereas all hide/ms using classes get maximum benefit out of raising their dexterity. So spot/listen should have a slight edge to make it fair. Someone who has made equal investments shouldn't have to roll 20 to spot them, and someone who has made slightly less investments should still be able to see them.

[Kaybrie]

someone who has made slightly less investments should still be able to see them.

Cause a spell you get no matter what as a choice from your all-encompassing spell list that you can prepare as quickly and easily as a 6 second rest, is only slightly less of an investment then gear/skills/scrolls/levels in stealth related classes.

[Doubtful]

Team Work.

Hows about instead of thinking 'How can I have an ultra-build that is immune to pvp from all quarters' people adopt an approach that encourages team work?

If you're worried about being stealth murdered, find a person or duo that you can employ as a counter espionage group to ensure you're not murdered in your sleep? (someone with reasonable spot/listen + Amplify & Clairaudience/Clairvoyance should do it).

As for the topic - This spell shouldn't pull people out of stealth. Though it would be nice if light spells gave a negative modifier within their radius.

[Kaeldorn]

Cause a spell you get no matter what as a choice from your all-encompassing spell list that you can prepare as quickly and easily as a 6 second rest, is only slightly less of an investment then gear/skills/scrolls/levels in stealth related classes.

It isn't, but it's a stationary bandage on the currently broken balance of stealth.

Amplify and Clairvoyance/Clairaudience last for such a short time they can only be employed reactively. Reasonable spot/listen doesn't cut it, you need to have through-the-roof skill values. Characters who do have that are quite rare.