Red Wizard of Thay PRC

[Ebannon]

The features of this class are as follows:

Spells Per Day/Spells Known: When a new Red Wizard level is gained, the character gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as though he had gained a level in Wizard

Enhanced Specialization: Upon becoming a Red Wizard, the character becomes even more skilled at casting spells from his chosen school of specialization - gaining +1 to DC for spells requiring a save and +1 to attempts to penetrate spell resistance. Red Wizards also lose the ability to learn new spells and use scrolls from a second prohibited school of magic (already known spells are not lost, however). This second prohibited school depends upon the Red Wizard's specialization school:

Abjuration, Conjuration, Evocation, Necromancy, Transmutation: lose Illusion
Divination: lose Enchantment
Enchantment, Illusion: lose Abjuration

Specialist Defense: A Red Wizard gains a bonus to defending against schools from his specialist school. This bonus is +1 at 1st level, +2 at 3rd level, +3 at 7th level, and +4 at 9th level.

Spell Power: At 2nd level, The Red Wizard's effective caster level for determining level-dependent variable checks for spells is increased by +1. This bonus increases by +1 every even-numbered Red Wizard level, to a maximum of +5 at 10th level.

Note: Although not specified in the feat description, this bonus only applies to spells from your chosen school of Specialization.

Wizard Bonus Feat: Red Wizards gain a bonus metamagic or item creation feat at levels 5 and 10.

So the benefits you get from the PRC over standard wizard, are 1.) a +1 bonus to DCs in your specialist school, 2.) a progressive bonus to spell defense of your school, 3.) and a progressive bonus to 'level dependent variable checks.'

What is a level dependant variable check? According to the discussion on the NWN2 Wiki (here) its applies basically in only two situations: Checks against dispelling, and checks to beat spell resistance.

For this you give up pursuit of a second school of magic. This is HUGE! In effect the sooner you become a red wizard the worse of a spellcaster you end up being. In fact unless you wait until level 17 to take the PRC you're effectively worse than a standard mage except for a +1 DC to your spell school (which can be duplicated by being a gnome illusionist, or taking a heritage feat).

SUGGESTION: Give an incentive to take the class early and pursue it to its end. Specially I'd suggest the +1 to DC be upgraded to a progressively obtained +3 to DC in your chosen school. The DC boost given at 1st, 3rd, and 9th in levels obtained in the PRC. It seems more in line with the 'super specialist' approach to Red Wizards, and makes the PRC seem more like a path to power and less of a hurdle.

[Thief Of Navarre]

Perhaps the level dependant variable checks can be applied to things that increase with level such as improved mage armour, spiderskin or Firebrand.

So a red wizard might have a higher AC or throw an extra magic missile compared to a regular wizard?

[Phantom Lamb]

+ to spell DC is a big, big bonus. Going up to +3 would be... wow. +2 would be more reasonable in my eyes to compensate for the loss of the second school.

[Ebannon]

+ to spell DC is a big, big bonus. Going up to +3 would be... wow. +2 would be more reasonable in my eyes to compensate for the loss of the second school.

I'll agree, it is a big bonus, but its to offset an equally big loss.

For illusion you're essentially trading the loss of spells such as ethereal visage, shadow shield, shades, shadow simularcrum, glass doppleganger, and solipsism, for +3 bonus to your school of choice. This is on top of the loss of your school of opposition for being a specialist.

For enchantment you give up G. Heroism, Mass Hold Person, Dominate Monster, and Mass Hold Monster. Not -that- bad of a list but to have this as your secondary school you'd have had to be a diviner and given up all illusion spells from the get go (basically wiping out all major defensive spells).

For abjuration you give up energy immunity, (greater and normal) spell mantle, (greater and normal) spell breach, mordenkenen's disjunction, superior resistance, and g. dispel magic.

[GodBeastX]

I honestly can't believe one of the most powerful PrCs in the game is being suggested a buff. -_-

[Ebannon]

one of the most powerful PrCs in the game

Really? From an RP potential, yes. But in game mechanics its far from a powerful PRC.

[Phantom Lamb]

I gotta say I'm with GBX on this one, but that's my last comment on it

[GodBeastX]

Really? From an RP potential, yes. But in game mechanics its far from a powerful PRC.

I don't really want to debate the issue, but considering EVERY offensive spell for a wizard uses DC, and this PrC packs in DC's out your eyeballs... yeah...

*Casts Wail of Banshee with a DC40 save*

[Thief Of Navarre]

But that same wizard can get one shotted by one spell outside of their specialisation because they have bugger all defensive spells.
And what if your second forsaken school is evocation or conjuration? - owned!

Ebannon is right in my opinion, its good as an RP class or as a Save or Die masochist but otherwise its pretty weak in reality (outside of the obvious statistical benefits). I would personally never choose such a PRC for myself; RP or not! Being killed by a crappy razor boar or a bodak at 20th level just because you lost shadow sheild ten levels earlier isnt exactly an incentive to take such a roleplay heavy class :S impo

-edit- Please dont smite me :S

[GodBeastX]

Finger of Death/Banshee Boar... Undeath to Death Bodak... DC off the charts, AOE, everything in room dies. Two spells...

Or for tons of fun, VAMPIRIC FEAST YO FACE!

[Kangleton]

I exclusively play wizards, since making Pyras. More fun than any class in my opinion, with so much versatility and so many options at your disposal. In my time playing wizards, however, I really have come to the conclusion that you're better off either not taking Red Wizard at all, or taking it post level 17 once you've already gotten level nine spells. Let's do some math.

Most wizards take spellcasting prodigy, and let's assume they'd capitalize and therefore take spell focus and greater spell focus as well. That's now +3 to DCs. Adding another +1 is, what, a 33% improvement? The cost of this is a doubling your weakness, denying yourself another spell school. Increasing your strength by 33% and your weakness by 100% hurts a little. It deprives the wizard of his strength, being his versatility - it's what makes him distinct from the sorcerer.

Now, let's look at DCs. GBX, I'll take your number: DC40. That's pretty awesome, but you realize that the Red Wizard levels, all ten of them, offered only the difference from 39 to 40? That's a 2.2% increase in power. That's it. 2.2% increase in power at the expense of ten levels and a spell school. That really is pretty shitty, and while I'm going to play my Red Wizard regardless, I think it's pretty clear I'm with Eb on this. It sucks that, as a Red Wizard illusionist with all the applicable feats to increase DCs, I'm at no advantage to a gnome. In fact, I'm at a disadvantage, having less spells than him.

[Cornuto]

this PrC packs in DC's out your eyeballs... yeah...

I'm not sure where you're getting the packed in DCs. It offers a +1 to DC to your school of choice gained at the first level and that's it. Perhaps you are confusing the 'spell power' feat, which according to what I've read only bumps your ability to beat dispelling and spell resistance (which since you have to take greater and normal spell penetration to even apply for the PRC is never an issue).

The spell power feat doesn't increase your DC at all.

You trade a +1 DC to your school of choice for the loss of an entire secondary spell school... thats a pretty raw deal.

[Gamling]

You have to realize that a lot of the Red Wizards perks that made them awesome in PNP don't exist in NWN2. Such as tattoo scribing, or circle magic - or even leading circle magic. Sure, things like this could be RPd but mechanically it can't happen. Such as in PvE or PvP.

[Saulus]

Aside from statistical differences the class itself gets other perks in the form of the faction.

[Urithrand]

Not to mention they still get full wizard spell progression and wizard bonus spells. Of course, if you took a munchkin specialisation like necromancy, *cough* you only lose Divination (useless except power words) and then illusion (Which only has about one useful spell after level 2)

And you're not "doubling your weakness" Kangles, in fact your mathematical conclusions there are dreadful... You are increasing your disablement by a further 1/7, having started with 1/8. The fact that 1 spell school is the same as 1 spell school does not mean you're increasing your negative effects by 100%... Mathematically, you are increasing your disablement by just over 14%. And that's not taking into account just *which* schools you lose, and which are more or less useful than others.

But regardless, an extra +1 to your spell school is useful, but +5 to your arcane defense? That's a crazy bonus! Not to mention being *absurdly* difficult to dispel, and being able to walk all over someone with magic resistance items or active spells. I think you are hugely cheapening the value of those bonuses.