Changing the crafting fatigue system (need opinions)

[Kaeldorn]

oooh so its NATURAL stats it reads so buffing up before hand has little help/effect?

say I want to mine if I boost my wisdom before hand and use some skill boosting stuff will that help? or not?

Nope.. you can do that just fine. You can raise the skill level using spells/feats, but you just can't lower the fatigue costs. For Mining, those are strength and constitution also.

And to quote myself as an answer to Durin:
The advantage of skill and caster level is that you get to make better items (or reduce your failure chance). The costs of failure are significant..
To bring up the mithral full plate as an example again, it costs 7250 gold pieces and 25 fatigue at a DC of 31. Failing the check by less than 5 means losing all that and getting nothing for it, failure by more than that means you can lose material components also. Since you're rolling with a d10, trying to make one of these with any skill level under 30 is a gamble. High int, skill points and buffs are going to help you there.

While being a wizard as a crafter certainly has its perks, I repeat, it is intended that they are not the perfect all-round crafter. Skill level is handy and even needed, but it's not going to be the answer to everything anymore.

[Product of Void]

ah I see I was mistaken I thought you read just the base stats for decreasing fatigue and such. It never goes bellow one from what you say but if you boost them it decreases the amount no?

say str 14 con 12

if it creates fatigue 5 you minus 3 from that. But if you boost them both with potions or spells will decrease it by 5 =0 but nothing is ever zero so you still take 1 fatigue?

am I correct?

[Fezzik]

* intercepts to save poor Kael's head *

In you're example POV, it would still cost 2 fatigue.... you can't lower the fatigue by anything other than NATURAL ability scores... but you can increase skill levels willy nilly, so it's handy to have a wizzy or bard around to buff the snot out of you.

[Product of Void]

ah so natural for fatigue PERIOD, and the regular skill used to figure things out can be boosted for mining,fishing,etc.

thanks. Though shiv now wants a spell called "BUFF THE SNOT OUT". it's like a mix between tasha's laughter and grease spell. :P

[Thief Of Navarre]

Well I think im in the minority but I like what Kaeldorn said originally! Eight hours to regain a point of fatigue (makes sense in real life; Im a manual labourer and should know) modified by your constitution.

I think thats the best solution, how does how well you cast spells or slay monster affect how tired you get? even after the many years of labour I have done I still get tired so it isnt for lack of trying or practise..

[gbbishop]

okay is it game hours or real-people hours? cuz game hours go WAY faster.

also i dont quite like the focus bit... i make things with my hands, jewelry, knives etc... and yes you do get tired when you make things.

that said, i find the more i make things the better "focused" i am! i make less mistakes and things become... more second nature. so i think the penalty for craft skill based on focus is weird... penalty for fatigue makes more sense but i still dont like that...

what it comes down to is this:
1. do you have the skill to make said item.
2. do you have the energy to make said item.
3. do you have the stuff to make said item.

i think the fatigue system is more than enough to regulate crafting.

[Azulfae]

It seems there is a mindset out there amongst some that it seems there should be the opportunity for someone with a higher skill rank in crafting to be able to produce a better quality item than someone who has e.g. taken 1 skill point in that type of crafting.

To me this is sounding like people want to be able to produce 'fine' or 'masterworked' goods.

A solution to something like this in my eyes would be to produce molds for 'fine' or 'masterworked' armours and weapons that require the same recipe as the normal item but a higher skill point demand to beat DC's.

Maybe also something could be done so that enchanting them would be cheaper/cause less fatigue/whatever it costs usually, due to them being better designed for taking on enchantment?

[Allielliot]

I was actually thinking today that this would be a solution to iron ore being so useless. let people make masterwork items that are better than the store bought versions for a higher amount of skill points.

[Belwas]

I was actually thinking today that this would be a solution to iron ore being so useless. let people make masterwork items that are better than the store bought versions for a higher amount of skill points.

great idea

[gbbishop]

i support the master work iron stuff... way cool idea.

[vexxen]

masterwork items sound like an awesome idea, would it be possible to make masterwork weaponry though?

EDIT: would there be any hope of somehow changing the look or the color of armor/robes?

[Thief Of Navarre]

There is; but Saulus said it takes a lot of resources to put back in (we had the opportunity originally but it caused issues). Saulus gets more funds, saulus puts appearance modding back in....

Its not a difficult thing at all Vexxen, just requires lots of memory for the upkeep I think :S
Most of the big ad funded NWN2 PWs have it, impe.

[vexxen]

ah i see, thanks for clearing that up much appreciated

[DurinRustbeard]

After using the system as we have it at present, and getting a much better understanding of it (Greatly thanks to you Kael ) I like the system as it is, and if there was one thing to possibly implement (if it hasn't been already) is to add to the fatigue recovery system: the 30mins off the 24 hour wait time for each cons bonus.

Also, a possible middle ground in the use of someones skill to reduce fatigue: A feat for each profession that will reduce fatigue by 1 when using that skill. Maybe make its ReQ Profession XX: 10 base skill. I'm not sure the demand for an idea like this, but it would be assessable to both Casters and Non-casters so the benefit would be potentially universal. (and its more an rp kind of feat than combat related, which seems kind of the direction we're going)

[Product of Void]

hmmm feat investment I like it. Perhaps it increases the dice roll and fatigue or just say like.

+2 to skill and -1 fatigue when crafting in that skill? Would be hard to determine WHERE the fatigue came from after aquiring it but could be decreased while aquiring it maybe? still get +1 fatigue in any crafting.

that would be neat.