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How to: Detect stealthers with skill alone!

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  • #1

    How to: Detect stealthers with skill alone!

    There seems to be a popular misconception that spot and listen are not viable counters to stealthed people, due to the amount of stealth gear they have. I will list classes and combination of feats/equipment that can be obtained on Sundren, that will beat Sundren's best stealther. None of the items listed will be faction store items, to be fair to everyone, though it is very possible that there are faction items that increase your spot/listen even more.


    20 Druid
    Elf or Aasimar (Aasimar will get 1 more, due to WIS)
    • 23 from skill points
    • +2 from Skill Affinity (Spot)
    • +1 from Farmer Background Story
    • +2 from Blooded
    • +2 from Alertness
    • +3 from Skill Focus (Spot)
    • +2 from Natural Senses
    • +11 from Max Wis with Owl's Insight
    • +10 from Clauraudience/Clairvoyance (Can be persisted, if you care)
    • +12 from two rings, a helm, and necklace with Visionary Diamonds
    • +10 from robe acquired at Sunny Spindles.

    Result: 78 Spot. This easily beats the server's highest hide rank, even if the hider receives all of the buffs available to him in the game - every time. This is the best rogue detector, because druids are not gear dependant. Wearing all of the spot gear available, they can still achieve an AC of ~50, while also being very deadly.

    20 Bard

    Elf (Because Elves get to make listen checks 6 times a round opposed to once)
    • +23 from skill points
    • +1 from Flirt/Ladies Man
    • +2 from Alertness
    • +2 from Skill Affinity (Listen)
    • +3 from Skill Focus (Listen)
    • +5 from Sensitive Ears
    • +5 from standing still
    • +6 from Inspire Competence
    • +4 from Greater Heroism
    • +10 from Clairaudience/Clairvoyance
    • +20 from Amplify

    Result: 81 Listen. Rogues' Move Silently is also significantly less than their Hide, so even if you do not have Clairaudience/Clairvoyance or Amplify up, it will be enough to detect the highest Move Silently rogue on Sundren, and quickly so as an elf. Also, this is without any listen equipment at all, so you will be able to survive while maintaining these skills.


    20 Barbarian, Monk, Ranger, or Rogue
    Elf
    • +23 from skill points
    • +2 from Alertness
    • +2 from Skill Affinity (Listen)
    • +3 from Skill Focus (Listen)
    • +5 from Standing Still

    Result: 35 Listen. You are 5 Listen away from being able to detect the highest Move Silently on the entire server, and as an elf, you get to make this check 6 times a round.

    However, there is no purchasable +listen equipment from non-faction stores (there is a lot within certain factions,) so you will have to rely on random drops, skill buffs (such as Owl's Wisdom, Inspire Competance, Heroism, Greater Heroism, Owl's Insight, etc.)

    An exception is a ranger who have +4 vs. his favored enemy, and typically has 14 WIS and the ability to cast Owl's Wisdom.

    11 Cleric
    Any race.
    • Zone of Revelation


    11 Favored Soul
    Any race.
    • Zone of Revelation



    Long story short, this leaves Wizards completely defenseless against rogues, so don't play them; they suck.
    Ramza Xantheus "...for a meager fee, of course."

    "    Heroes need the weak to feel important. I say, teach the weak the skills they need to live on their own, to protect themselves and break free of the chains of charity and victimization. The Triad needs people to protect. I need people to succeed." -Byrun von Hellstrom
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Munchkin: the way not to play on an RP server

    Taking background feats specifically to increase your ability = pretty sad.

    Also, do not include spells that only last a few rounds. Those are only useful if you ICly know a stealther is around, and you won't if you can't already spot or hear them to begin with.

    Comment

    • #3
      Originally posted by Kaeldorn View Post
      Also, do not include spells that only last a few rounds. Those are only useful if you ICly know a stealther is around, and you won't if you can't already spot or hear them to begin with.
      Read the notes below Bard on not needing Amplify and Clairaudience/Clairvoyance, and Druids can persist Clairaudience/Clairvoyance (but they can spot the server's best stealther without it 100% of the time).
      Ramza Xantheus "...for a meager fee, of course."

      "      Heroes need the weak to feel important. I say, teach the weak the skills they need to live on their own, to protect themselves and break free of the chains of charity and victimization. The Triad needs people to protect. I need people to succeed." -Byrun von Hellstrom

      Comment

      • #4
        39 is the highest MS on the server?...nahhh
        "Half the lies they tell about me aren't true."
        Yogi Berra

        Learn things:http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page
        http://www.sundren.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page

        Comment

        • #5
          Originally posted by Dragor View Post
          39 is the highest MS on the server?...nahhh
          59 is. It pointed out that I did some bad math and was 1 off, though.
          Ramza Xantheus "...for a meager fee, of course."

          "          Heroes need the weak to feel important. I say, teach the weak the skills they need to live on their own, to protect themselves and break free of the chains of charity and victimization. The Triad needs people to protect. I need people to succeed." -Byrun von Hellstrom

          Comment

          • #6
            I find this a good thought exercise, though I will note that it requires spending many, -many- feats and gear bits on things that do not directly benefit your combat ability. The opportunity cost is huge.

            For a stealther, the opportunity cost is much lower, as their entire combat style benefits from being more stealthy up to a certain point. So instead of being neutral to their ability to kill things, they are improving their ability to kill things, by pumping up stealth. While to take all those feats, even the druid (probably the least hurt by the stuff shown) would be having to give up a lot of good feats.

            And you can see this in observed behavior: people will make a detection-focused character far less often than they will make a stealth-focused character.
            Adama who was once called Adama Hrakness, sacred paw of Mielikki

            Lihana Farrier, Paladin of Torm and noble dalliance

            On Hold: Alandriel Ward, Actually a Vampire Groupie
            Retired for Good: Tamryn Jorandur, Hano's Wife and Conflicted Soul

            Comment

            • #7
              Originally posted by Dragor View Post
              39 is the highest MS on the server?...nahhh
              You only have to get within 20. You get either 2 or 4 chances a round to beat stealth. Depending on if you're in active detect mode (Hint: Elves are ALWAYS in active mode.) The chances of rolling a 20 are pretty high.

              Ok, I got a PM from fuzzy_shortyking about this, so I thought I'd scour the old BioWare programmer list for people who'd worked on NWN. After three or four attempts, I managed to snag the inimitable Brenon "Kilimanjaro" Holmes, who was able to give me the low-down on Detect Mode and all of its secret, inner workings. We tried to involve Craig "Uncanny Frankie Valli" Welburn in the conversation, but the network gods we worship were not appeased by our offering of stale Doritos and croissants. Here's the breakdown I received from Mr. Holmes, which is probably about as "official" as any info gets. He went through old NWN code and everything!

              Passive (default) mode
              Trap detection radius: 5ft
              Trap detection rate: 6 seconds (every round)
              Trap detection roll: d20
              Spot/Listen roll: d10

              Active (Detect) mode
              Trap detection radius: 10ft
              Trap detection rate: 3 seconds (twice per round)
              Trap detection roll: d20
              Spot/Listen roll: d20

              Stealth checks
              Player detects stealth: 5 times per second
              Player rolls for hide/move silently/spot/listen: 6 seconds
              NPC detects stealth: 4 seconds
              NPC rolls for hide/move silently/spot/listen: 6 seconds
              Hopefully, that will clear something up."
              http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/How_Steal...etection_works

              Actually this seems to be the case for nwn1 code, I'm not entirely sure if this is accurate for nwn2.
              Originally posted by Saulus
              Stop playing other shitty MMOs and work on Sundren, asshole.

              Comment

              • #8
                Originally posted by Raksha View Post
                I find this a good thought exercise, though I will note that it requires spending many, -many- feats and gear bits on things that do not directly benefit your combat ability. The opportunity cost is huge.
                Two feats for the Monks, Rangers, Bards, Rogues and Barbarians

                The bard doesn't actually need the two feats, but it's available to them if they want to be listen masters.

                Three feats for a druid, but they don't actually need to take them either to spot the best Hide on the server. Even if they did, a druid only needs two feats to grind and be one of the best PvP classes on the server. I just add the feats to put insult on injury.
                Ramza Xantheus "...for a meager fee, of course."

                "                Heroes need the weak to feel important. I say, teach the weak the skills they need to live on their own, to protect themselves and break free of the chains of charity and victimization. The Triad needs people to protect. I need people to succeed." -Byrun von Hellstrom

                Comment

                • #9
                  Originally posted by DM Cornuto View Post
                  Actually this seems to be the case for nwn1 code, I'm not entirely sure if this is accurate for nwn2.
                  In NWN2, since 1.22 Elves get 6 checks against a rogue's Move Silently per round (1 check per second.)
                  Ramza Xantheus "...for a meager fee, of course."

                  "                  Heroes need the weak to feel important. I say, teach the weak the skills they need to live on their own, to protect themselves and break free of the chains of charity and victimization. The Triad needs people to protect. I need people to succeed." -Byrun von Hellstrom

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Sensitive Ears
                    Your hearing is very keen, but vulnerable to loud sounds.
                    Prerequisites: Elf
                    Benefit: You gain +5 to Listen checks.
                    Special: You suffer +25% damage from sonic effects and a -2 penalty to saving throws against sonic effects.
                    Good thing the server also has this awesome racial feat available then.
                    Originally posted by Saulus
                    Stop playing other shitty MMOs and work on Sundren, asshole.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      I'm not sure I am understanding properly. Are you saying within 12 seconds a druid will most likely spot you? ((Well, a high chance atleast. ))

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Sorry for the triple post, but it should also be noted that the following spells were given to the server's highest hide, when factoring in this post: Spiderskin, Heroism, Mass Camoflage. This is +17 to their hide.
                        Ramza Xantheus "...for a meager fee, of course."

                        "                        Heroes need the weak to feel important. I say, teach the weak the skills they need to live on their own, to protect themselves and break free of the chains of charity and victimization. The Triad needs people to protect. I need people to succeed." -Byrun von Hellstrom

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          The highest hide and MS I've seen has been in the high 60's or low 70's. Quite frankly, thats just silly, but so is a listen and spot of 60's and 70's.
                          The poetry that comes from the squaring off between;
                          and the circling is worth it, finding beauty in the dissonance.

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                          • #14
                            That elf feat should be removed for all I care. The ability to spot/hear stealthers should not be geared towards munchkinned elves rolling 20's.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Used to be (back in Epic Level Handbook days) a listen check of DC 65 left you listening to people's thoughts...

                              Comment

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