How to: Detect stealthers with skill alone!

[GRCrush]

My point was that classes where given certain skills or attack levels etc to create balance. if we start spreading one bit of wealth among classes to keep balance we would need to spread other abilities etc to counter.

As it is Rogues are at the bottom of the food chain as far as balance goes So giving other classes anything that would counter their abilities is only gimping them further.

The spot skill shared with high AB classes not only hampers stealth but is a direct counter to feint. This of course leaves the rogue with simple dagger damage as a defense ( 1-4 points wee got ya now)

I would also like to point out that assassins are such a class that would train in the art of killing someone and the invis blade class which is primarily a dagger rogue class of 5 levels is high ab itself

( until you actually play a sneak on this server who tends to step from shadows and wiff at the stupid ac levels around here and miss more often then not you won't understand how bottom they are. Its pretty sad when you leap from your hiding spot and your the one who leaves that round taking damage and everyone else is unscathed)

[Kaeldorn]

Again.. it's optional. Most people wouldn't invest in it, because it would come at the expense of other skills.

A more fair trade would be to open up rogue access to the +dodge bonus feats that fighters get, as they'd have to invest one of their feats. And even then one feat is still less of an expense to a rogue than what 23 skillpoints is to a fighter.


I agree with the stupid AC levels being an issue. I personally favour giving monsters more hp so their fights last longer while not making it a requirement to be full AB with buffs tacked on to hit anything, and giving creatures vulnerabilities to certain elemental damage types so that wizards who do actually use offensive spells don't get the shaft.

[GRCrush]

What else would a fighter put points in?

Parry is broken thus sucks. leaving only craft skills and intimidate as typical spending patterns. To spare 23 points out of a minimum 40 would be an easy venture.

As for the rogue gaining added ac from a dodge feat ehh. No offense but woopity doo doo. I would rather have weapon specilization or an added increase to AB over AC. Armor class feats are already available to me as a rogue such as two weapon defense etc

[Kaeldorn]

Intimidate, Taunt, Crafts Weaponsmith and Armoursmith and Professions Miner and Woodcutter are all options worth investing in.

Jump is making an entry, and swim might do so as well in the near future. Parry can be good, but only if you're taking duelist levels as well.

Really, 2 skill points/level classes are pretty skill-starved.. But having more options doesn't hurt.

[GRCrush]

To give you an idea of how far off balance detection versus stealth can be let me point out a scenario we tested

My rogue..who has the top stealth gear available on the server has a 24 dex for +7 boost and has invested in wild child stealthy as well as both skill focus feats toward being a sneak and has maxed her skill points per level plus gains 2 addintional points form class and an additional boost from race is easily detected by some one who has average wisdom and minimal gear to detect without using spells and having no feats invested in detection what so ever

Again we have tested this and each time my rogue is detected in a matter of moments

[crazyjerren]

I read a thread for a different server about making parry function like tumble. Giving 1 ac per 10 ranks.

Not sure if that's the intent of parry, but its a interesting topic in itself. Parry is broken, why OE took a look at nwn1 and said "Yeah, lets take this system, take all the crap about it and add more crap!" is beyond me. But I digress. The idea of getting a straight dodge AC bonus while actually in parry mode might be an interesting concept. Maybe roll a Parry / 5 to ac, feats like improved parry could grant bonuses and the duelest could maybe add their class level. Requiring parry mode as a trigger would make it completely defensive still.

This is probably topic for a different thread though >.>

[roguethree]

To give you an idea of how far off balance detection versus stealth can be let me point out a scenario we tested

Without numbers and specific item bonuses, this gives pretty much 0 idea how far off the balance is.

[Mournas]

Ooooo Thread Necro. As I once had the highest listen Skill Character on the Server (62 base at 17) I am highly qualified to partake in this now dead discussion.

Say you as a character have an 11 Listen Skill and the stealth player has a 27 Move Silent. The Math is relatively simple if the player rolls a 1, 2, 3, or 4 then you have to roll a 17, 18, 19, or 20, respectively, to hear them. You have a 4% Chance to actually hear the person.

However if you are an elf ... you are 6 times more likely to hear that person in any given round. However you have to take in the fact that you have to rely on the 20% chance that the person rolls a 1, 2, 3, or 4. If the player rolls a 4, you have a 30% chance that you will detect them if they roll a 3 you have a 35% chance, if they roll a 2 you have a 40% chance and if they roll a 1 you have a 45% chance.

However you are capped at the 20% of their able to be detected rate. So you go from a 4% chance over all to a 20% chance over all at detecting someone who is sneaking. So as you can see an Elf is the opportune detector, even at a level of 3 vs a 17th level with a relatively decent MS score without uber sneak gear.

[Yevelian]

Regarding stealth, yes it is difficult to detect some rogues, and yes, it can be easy to detect others. I for one don't think its too terribly unbalanced. Especially with some of the items out there to be bought or found. You just have to have style. #kirkcarshby.

[Fezzik]

Some of those items in the ebon coin can give someone with no skill points at all a 35 hide (or they uses to)

[Peridan]

Look at it this way. You have a pretty decent chance to hear/see any sneaker in a given area if your spot and listen score are within 20 ranks of his. Elves even more so.

[Mournas]

Look at it this way. You have a pretty decent chance to hear/see any sneaker in a given area if your spot and listen score are within 20 ranks of his. Elves even more so.

Aye, and I actually fudged those numbers up badly you have almost 2.8% Chance of hearing a sneaker with a 27 skill vs an 11 Listen and as an elf you have a 11% Chance. This is of course when there is only a 20% overlap of numbers. So Honestly you still need to be relatively dedicated to a detection skill to detect a sneak. Granted There is more gains to Listen from Items and Feats than there are to Move Silently. If you really dedicate yourself to move silently you can stay out of the listen range of Most players.

[Cornuto]

That's your chance to detect in a single 6 second round, right?

[Mournas]

If there is a 4 Skill Point overlap IE 11 and 27 would overlap at 28 29 30 and 31. Then yes in a single round those are about the odds. A Level 3 Elf with 11 Listen vs a 17th Monk with 27 Move Silently (I take that as my example because I remember this happening to a player at the second wind he was a 17th monk and I was a 3rd level Elf and I knew he was there.)

[Thief Of Navarre]

Hide mechanics suck on NWN2. I wish people would get over it!