How Do You Feel about Sundren's Leveling Pace?

[ManUtd4Ever]

As for xp, I would be in favor of adding RP xp to the ticker, but also xp for actions such as crafting/resource gathering. Not more than how much you would gain fighting mobs, but enough per day to make up for a short dungeon run.

This would be really cool. There are a handful of characters (Angus was once one of them) that when you log on there are a lot of players asking for your assistance with crafting. Of course you help them, that is why you made that character... but to receive XP for doing it would be epic.


Cheers!

[Kitsunestume]

Hate to break it to you, Kit, but we've tried that in several forms. We've bounced around the idea of giving faction leaders the ability to rep more than once, or to offer greater rep per day (which is once per in game day, not reset).

But the critique that DMs have left faction leaders powerless is without merit. We have been more than accommodating to faction leaders wishing to alter ranks, grant rank, or offer xp for faction RP. Further still, we've altered the structure of the faction system as a whole to allow PC's to lead factions, rather than the NPC based system we have had before.

The critique I would suggest is that some leaders of factions treat their positions as a casual appointment, rather than a responsibility to their fellow players. Not all, mind you. But in cases where a PC has been offered a position at the head of a faction and then left without making arrangements for their successor, the faction tends to fall apart.

As for xp, I would be in favor of adding RP xp to the ticker, but also xp for actions such as crafting/resource gathering. Not more than how much you would gain fighting mobs, but enough per day to make up for a short dungeon run.

No hating required. I may have chosen sub-optimal wording, and apologize for any confusion.
I'm aware of the many changes to the system from what it once was, and appreciate all of them. I also fully understand the requirement for intensive testing before application in the production environment and it's inevitable breaking there anyway. The suggestion was primarily a means of highlighting a potential means of player-interaction-based XP gain, such as via player-initiated mini-quests - and I can certainly see it would need a lot of analysis and trial before being considered fit for use, which may not be optimal use of limited resources.

As for the latter portion of your post: I would definitely appreciate the addition of non-destructive means of character advancement. :-)

[Jhickey]

the critique that DMs have left faction leaders powerless is without merit. We have been more than accommodating to faction leaders wishing to alter ranks, grant rank, or offer xp for faction RP. Further still, we've altered the structure of the faction system as a whole to allow PC's to lead factions, rather than the NPC based system we have had before.

I have to echo this. Because as a leader the staff have been above and beyond willing to help. The issue that I have seen is that if I provide a member with a task (Not all), they either don't follow through, or just stop playing, or the DM that was going to do it gets burnt out. It is just the nature of the game. If it does not get done then, I will either do it myself (if it is essential) or not do anything about it.

That being said, the core group of the Black Hand are incredibly dedicated, and we all are working our buts off to make the faction better.

More on topic. Every one has made great points thus far.

[Seheren]

Something I have seen on others servers is a system that decreases the amount of XP you get progressively as you start killing things. You start off getting 100% and it goes down as you run through a dungeon. Then, while you are either offline or RP'ing you 'regenerate' so once at full strength you can go out and get 100% killing mobs. You regenerate faster if you are RP'ing than offline. I enjoyed how that system worked. I felt that it greatly discouraged grinding, but it still allowed for a reasonable rate of leveling. It also had the welcome side-effect of encouraging RP.

[Kaybrie]

Three people who know what they're doing could hit 20 inside of a week very easily.

A day*

Though the squad makeup was Cleric, Favored Soul, and Warlock... But it has been done.

Edit; my point being I feel like leveling IS too fast.

But I also feel that's a biproduct of any server where killing re spawning mobs grants XP. You can't adjust the current system, unless you made it annoying/a pointlessly long and agonizing grind to get anywhere.

[Grey-Moth]

Honestly, I recall struggling hard for my level 20 when it came to Thresh. But I wasn't optimized for killing stuff. I had to buff up other people, with all my crafting feats holding me back, and a poor choice in specializing as a illusionist.

I did get help, though, in the form of Michael Zollas dragging me along to Whurest, until I finally got my 20. That was also long, and labored. I think mostly because he was 20 for a good bit, and I was getting reduced mob experience because of it. For me? The experience was extremely slow. I think it took... three months, slow. I lost interest in actively leveling outright, and figured, whatever I'll do what I can when I can when it pops up.

Now, no one ever. Ever told me outright 'you can't come' to an event, but the events I did get to go on included epic levels around me, so I was often very impotent in helping out. It was a bit of a downer, though the events themselves were quite fun. And I don't blame any GM, they can't be expected to ensure the encounter has a few kobolds or something so I feel like I did some party contributions, it's just that's how it went at the time.

I often take pity on new people that show up, when I can find them on the player's list. I think most wizards or sorcerers do, passing out free wards and weapon buffs to help them get by if they're on at odd times. I currently am jobless, so when I can be on in my timezone in the 'AM', I get to help those that usually, and quite literally, can not get a party.

So, I guess to summarize, my experience leveling was god awful. Largely, it was my fault for not being a kill everything wizard, but it was pretty bad.

Edit: Also, I enjoyed RPing way more then mob stomping on most days. People here can be really compelling, and the focus for me coming entirely was to come and RP, and participate in events. The automatic system in place? Absolutely -amazing- work, altogether, I'm not insulting what's up and running. It just didn't work for me, though.

[Atmosphere]

As a DM, it seems too fast to me. A few days pass or a weekend off from the server and you come back and find player characters you wanted to aid have already become badasses. And if I made a sweet blue item meant for a string of events that had to be delayed for whatever reason, that item becomes stupid and useless as they've already saved up enough coin and grinded enough flags to buy a few nice red items from their faction shop.

[gamestarmike]

Y-You would do that for Tyranus?! He loves blue treasure! :P <3

[Atmosphere]

sure.

*gives Tyranus a +2 dagger and pats him on the beard*

Great for picking your teeth after you eat pony, I hear.

[Torgar]

Monster xp needs to be toned down, and I say that hating to grind monster xp more then I have to in order to reach 20. I've done the "grind to 20" mambo so many times, I think I"ve leveled almost every base class to twenty with the exception of warlock or FS. Some of the classes more then once. I'd actually prefer if the RP ticker got a big boost, like maybe 75-100 a tick and the monster xp took like a 25% decrease. That would bring people who want to make pure RP characters and people who want to make pure monster killers leveling at a bit of a closer pace. The monster killers would still level faster, simply because of their ability to earn 1.5-3k xp an hour compared to the 100xp an hour roleplayer earning only 600 xp an hour, but at least then someone could roleplay for a few days solid on a weekend and maybe get a level at the lower levels.

What the math would look like on that is this:

XP to level 4 needed= 3000
XP per 10 minute tick= 100
XP per minute= 10

3000/10=# of minutes needed roleplaying to reach level 4 from level 3
3000/10= 300 minutes, or 5 hours of roleplaying.

Then, you add another 100 minutes for every additional level, on top of the 300 minutes needed.

In total, you'd need 6,800 minutes of roleplaying, with no quest xp or DM xp or monster xp, to reach level 20 from 3. That's 111.48 hours, or 4.6 days worth of roleplaying. Far less then was needed before to be allowed to reach 20 before, but still a very decent devotion of time just sitting and roleplaying. Since no one is gonna be able to sit for four and a half days straight, you'd split that up with a few hours here, a few hours there. Overall, it'd probably take someone about a month and a half of casual roleplay to reach 20, and that's if they devoted 3 hours a day, ever day. Take out like half the days and reduce it to maybe 2 hours, and you're probably looking at about 3 months of someone just roleplaying to reach 20.

I think that's actually pretty ok. You can do a lot to earn a solid reputation in 3 months time. A lot can happen on the server in that amount of time.

If anyone has any questions about my math....LOOK OVER THERE! (>^^)> Distraction!

[Elusa]

I got Alice to 14 on RP exp only. It took forever and a day to get that far, but you could probably calculate it to a finite number. 3 months sounds about right. You have to add some time for times spent alone waiting for people to stop grinding long enough to RP. Upping the gain to 60-65 would have her at 20. 100 would make it reasonably bearable, but that might be too high.

The balance point (imho) is where, yeah, grinding is faster, but you don't feel like you're wasting time XP-wise by stopping to RP.

[Doubtful]

10E for the win.

If only it wasn't silly amounts of work to put in place.

[ManUtd4Ever]

I would simply ask the staff and playing community to understand some timezones rarely get more than a couple, and by that I mean 1 - 3 players in game at any one time. So while toning down the XP for mobs and conversely increasing the RP ticker makes a lot of sense, it is not a practical solution for GMT +2.

If anything, I would rather see a 'Win-Win' scenario where the RP ticker is increased and the XP for mobs remains the same. This would reward those player less inclined to grind... but also promote increased RP.

This morning at 0500 my time, I logged into game to pay room rent and purchase some potions. I saw about 6 - 8 players inside of the Second Wind Inn RP'ing. There are rarely that many players logged into game when I come home in the evening... and those that are, usually are AFK.

I do agree that increasing the RP Ticker is a solid suggestion. Here is my math on the subject.

Currently, the Ticker awards 30 XP every 10 minutes, or 180 XP per hour. 190,000 XP is required to reach 20th level – no ECL. You are awarded 3,000 XP at player start, thus requiring 187,000 XP to go from new character to 20th level.

30 XP Ticker: 187,000 / 180 = 1,039 hours or 43.3 days
- 2 hours of play time a day = 1.42 years to 20th level
- 4 hours of play time a day = 260 days to 20th level

If you move the Ticker to award 100 XP every 10 minutes, or 600 XP per hour.
100 XP Ticker: 187,000 / 600 = 311.7 hours or 13 days
- 2 hours of play time a day = 156 days to 20th level
- 4 hours of play time a day = 78 days to 20th level



Cheers!

[Elusa]

10E for the win.

If only it wasn't silly amounts of work to put in place.

For those of us not in-the-know, 10E?

[Lotus]

Max level is 10, all subsequent levels grant additional feats, but no HP/Saves/Attack Bonus/etc. It's a nice compromise to allow people to keep leveling without having vast power gaps between old and new PCs. Also makes life hella easy on DMs trying to craft events and encounters. Unfortunately, like Doubt said, stupid amounts of work would be needed.